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The Nagorno-Karabakh region has been nearing the end of the first phase of the implementation of the Armenian-Azerbaijani ceasefire deal that started on November 10.
Late on November 30, Azerbaijani troops started entering the Lachin district in the Nagorno-Karabkah region. This district is being transferred to Azerbaijani forces as a part of the ceasefire agreement reached between Armenia and Azerbaijan earlier in November. Nonetheless, the Lachin corridor, the road linking Armenia with the remaining territory of the Nagorno-Karabah Republic (Republic of Artsakh) will remain under the control of the Russian peacekeeping forces.
Under the aforementioned ceasefire deal, Azerbaijan already established control over the districts of Agdam and Kalbajar. The next step is the restoration of the transport link between the Azerbaijani mainland and Azerbaijan’s Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic as well as the creation of an alternative road between Lachin and Stepanakert that would not pass through the Azerbaijani-controlled area.
Another important factor is the status of Karabkah. The Russian-brokered ceasefire agreement signed by the sides did not address this question, and, therefore, it still has to be settled. Baku insists that Karabakh is an integral part of Azerbaijan and all on what the Armenians leaving there can count on is some cultural autonomy. At the same time, the Armenian leadership, led by Nikol ‘The Basement’ Pashinyan continues its international campaign asking for at least somebody to recognize Nagorno-Karabkah as an independent state because Yerevan itself does not want to do this by itself.
Recently, the French Senate adopted a resolution asking the government to recognize the Republic of Artsakh as an independent state. This move was presented by Armenia as a large-scale diplomatic victory, while in fact the adopted resolution is non-binding and on an official level France does not recognize the state of Artsakh. And even if it does so, it is unclear how Paris would be able to influence the situation in Karabakh. Even in the hottest days of the Second Nagorno-Karabkah War, France limited its support to the Pashinyan government to diplomatic concerns. Some large-scale French-led sanction campaign against Azerbaijan and Turkey over these questions seems like a scenario mostly existing in the dimension of Armenian fairy tales. In the current conditions, the regional stability in Karabakh is guaranteed by the Russian peacekeepers and the commitment of the sides to the ceasefire regime.
Nonetheless, the question of Karabakh’s status remains the important factor in that, in the event of the inability of the sides to come to a comprehensive diplomatic solution making mutual concessions, could once again fuel instability in the South Caucasus.
Confederation with Azerbaijan (their own police and army) with permanent Russian presence as guarantor and protector of Karabakh is solution
R. Of Artsarkh is armenian inhabitated and it is a self determinated state. Why such a ridiculous idea?!…history demonstrated that the turks are criminals and their only goal is to kill as much armenians or other christians as posible…
If you can’t understand what is written in my comment, that is not my problem.
Your comment doesn’t make sense to me..
To clarify to you the basics, confederation is federation of 2 or more sovereign states.
Of course you “understand” better the situation on the ground… you can’t see a natural union between Armenia and Artsakh, but you see an unnatural union between Azerbaijan and Artsakh instead …
Ps… regardless of islamic sect the azeris are part of, they are turks … they have an apetite for killing and persecuting christians in general and armenians in particular …
They are not Turks.
Not interested in your futile bigoted theories.
Ukrainians and Russians are more identical than Turks and Azeri’s yet they are separated…
Plenty of examples like that..
Shia and Sunni do not mix. End of story.
You can put an end to a story when you are the creator of it … you are not
You are bigoted Muslim hater and I will WASTE my words on you
Armenia is country that has betrayed Artsakh and they have never recognized them which is CRIME in itself and total betrayal of the worst kind.
They have renounced their brothers and sisters and abandoned them in the worst time.
Azerbaijan and Artsakh are separated as people bit not as territory thus should have same destiny now to find peace and coexistence.
Two countries – one nation.
I am not a muslim hater but I do believe islam is a criminal ideology…i feel sorry for anyone who believe in such a crap … But I don’t ( feel sorry) in the case of anyone who kills inocent people in the name of islam though…
‘I do believe islam is a criminal ideology”
So much for your calling Shia …a “sect”
You mix Wahhabi fanatics sect, with all other decent Muslims
You probably meant: “two states – two nations”, united in “one federation of states” … that’s the definition of a confederation … but history has shown that a federation of states tends to reduce the concept of “nations” to just “one nation” … “I wonder” what nation would that be … Your example is just a phantasmagoric thing, the azeris will never give the armenians the status of a state part of a confederation … you may not have read or heard the official azerbaijani statements on this subject …
I meant “one nation” because it sounds nice …uniting…but of course it is just 2 states with open borders to each other. That is all.
It is not what Azeri’s would gladly give, but that is only optimal long term solution for both sides.
No other solution exists for the moment.
You tend to lecture and you are kind of boring…
Lets say that our conversation is finished.
In what you described as “optical solution”, there is no room for “2 states” … so that just to be clear on that and not prolonging this kinki discussion over and over …
I didn’t ask you to comment my comment in the 1st place.
Only your logic is “kinky”.
Of course there is room and possibility for cohabitant
2 states with Russia as catalyst.
There is no other way around that problem.
Good buy.
Its up to Azerbaijan to decide whether it is confederation or just absorbing, permanent or 5 year peacekeeping.
And why is “up to Azerbaijan to decide”?
It is not their territory de facto only de jure for the moment
This peace agreement was about the stopping the war, but still doesn’t give right to Armenia to decide anything about Astarkh since they didn’t recognize them.
To Azerbaijan because Astrakh is 98% Armenian and if they vote for independence , Russia might support them .
So Russia can transfer easily that “right” to decide to Astrakh by letting them make referendum of independence and decide for them selves how they want to live while protected by Russia.
That should be reminder to Armenia, but also to Azerbaijan & Turkey.
You are thinking very primitively on politics. Ill go easy on you, step by step, one question at a time.
What do you think is the benefit for Russia to do that?
I’ll go even easier because you are simpleton that doesn’t get it.
Russia is your daddy, if not, go West if you can.
that doesn’t answer the question. should I take it as inability to answer that question? if yes, I will move on to a simpler question…
You questions are retarded. No simpler than retarded exist.
Perhaps it was too complicated for you since you didn’t get it. I will make it more simple.
you said:
“So Russia can transfer easily that “right” to decide to Astrakh by letting them make referendum of independence and decide for them selves how they want to live while protected by Russia.”
question is:
What would be the benefit of Russia to support it? Because there will be consequences, and while Russia making such decision will weight costs and benefits. So what benefits do you see there?
The benefit to Russia is to interdict economic and ideological developments in Caucasus benefiting Turkey at their expense. Russia will have indirect control of gas and oil shipments flowing west.
If you mean having military presence 50km from the pipelines is indirect control, Russia already had that with bases in Abkhazia and Armenia.
Russia is projecting its full power in Caucasus.
that sound very vague. can you be more specific what you mean “full power in Caucasus”?
Under the CSTO guidelines, Russia is in Armenia and NK being in position to interdict any Turkish aspirations and double cross, indirectly controlling the gas and oil flow to the west.
What advantage do you think might Russians get in NK that they wouldn’t get with current proper bases in the region(not peacekeeping missions)?
They have a reason to be a lot closer to the Iranian border, the peace keeping force is a battle force, driving a tangible wedge between Azeri and Turks.
Prior to this war the Russian advisors were expelled from Armenia and their base was just a token of their presence.
Russia will protect its interests and will not allow Turks to make the Turkstream a white elephant.
-Can they not be closer (even next to) to Iran through Armenia? You know that Armenia-Iran border is controlled by Russian border guards, right? Peacekeeping force is not a battle force, a battle force has tanks and artillery, peacekeeping force doesn’t.
-Source for this one please.
– Russia will protect its interests of course. But how will NK help it? Not to allow Turkstream become a white elephant, you mean have troops close to BTC and TANAP? They were close to it in Abkhazian and Armenian bases already. How does their peacekeeping force in NK without any artillery going to help?
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Pashinyan thought that France would come to save Artsakh like they did in East Mediterranean when France deployed Frigates and Rafale jets to support Greece vs Turkey…..but one thing is to protect an European Mediterranen country..and another thing is to protect a Caucasian country close to Turkey and Azerbajan..outside of its influence and logistic area..
On simple words – out of French reach…too weak to be able to “help”.
Microb’s willing but tiny impotent neocolonialist schlong
Exactly, Russia is the only European power that can realistically help Armenia.
Even America would struggle, since the Turks could just block off the entrance to the black sea in a time of war. Only other option would be to fly in support via Georgia, but that wouldn’t be very efficient.
US would never fight NATO Turks for interests of tiny non NATO country in the 1st place…and still if they would…US would not arrive by sea, but by air to Georgia and Iraq than.
ahhahaahahha
So we not gonna say anything about Zion weapons (get sanction) and EU Freedom fighters? LMFAO
With Karabakh burden off, finally Armenia can move on to regional and global cooperations.
How about “cooperation” with Iran and Russia, not to bring the Syrian zionist-terrorists in the country?
Unless of course they prefer to be crushed like cockroach…
Cooperation with everyone. Iran, Russia, Turkey, China, US, EU. All big powers.
Iran, Russia are next door neighbors thus much more concerned than anybody else. Importing Zionist terrorists directly influences security situation in the region.
Turkey is not “big power”(no such category exist), just “regional power” and EU is not even country
They are all not asked for opinion.
Concerns only these 3 countries.
Azerbaijan will behave or regret it. It is up to them to chose.
you got lost. not even following the conversation. start reading from the beginning, see if you get back to the topic
Topic is that Russia and Iran decide about “right” to bring Zionist terrorists to Azerbaijan.
Turkey or Azerbaijan do not have right to do those things at all.
Topic closed.
I was talking about Armenia finally being able to build relationship with all neighboring countries but, for some reason you ignored that and moved on to completely different topic. But I don’t mind, lets discus your topic:
Which law says that Azerbaijan and Turkey do not have a right to do that?
Lets not discus my topic or any topic.
You asking stupid questions all the time is not discussing.
Sure I am asking stupid questions. So lets get back to the topic:
What is the law you are referring to?
What does Armenia have to offer?
Queer color revolution financed by Soros.
trade, access, opening its market, human resources
Not with Russia positioned in the NK.
A strategical position in Transcaucasia, and some gold mines
‘Why hasn’t Armenia recognized Artsakh?’, keep blaming the internet trolls.
If Armenia recognized Artsakh and opened the path to its integration with Armenia, it might have given an excuse to the Turks and Azeris to attack Armenia proper, in addition to Artsakh itself. In other words, recognizing Artsakh might have led to the loss of both Armenia and Artsakh and the final genocide of all the Armenians of the Caucuses.
Russians made the Armenians understand that Russia would not respect their mutual defense treaty if the Armenians “modified” it by incorporating or adding Artsakh into it without explicit de jure Russian consent — which the Russians implicitly rejected by demanding the Armenians to return to Azerbaijan the territories occupied between Armenia and Artsakh.
Like practically all of you, Turkish, French or American, the Russians are only interested in preserving their own (perceived) material self-interest. Russians show no qualms about doing business with the depraved Turks and Azeris who established their respective countries by torturing and exterminating millions of the indigenous Armenian, Greek and Assyrian peoples of Asia Minor and the Caucuses.
So the answer to the question above is, the Armenians didn’t recognize or annex Artsakh because they knew that they couldn’t prevail against the combined forces of Turkey(NATO), Israel, and Azerbaijan by themselves — enabled and encouraged by Russia’s demand of the return of the lands between Armenia and Artsakh and refusal to recognize Artsakh.
Sure. Armenians made tactical mistakes by using their armor in open territory thereby exposing them to drone attacks. They also failed to acquire appropriate Electronic Warfare suits and anti-aircraft SAM systems due to lack of funds, ignorance and shortsightedness.
But those inexperienced Armenian young men defending their people and their honor, evinced plenty of courage and will to fight. Yes, Pashinyan and the other perfidious Armenian and Artsakh leadership betrayed them, willingly or otherwise. But the Armenian fighters did their best even though they were actually held back and misled by their own incompetent leadership.
So, humans.
We continue to watch together how far you will go and where you will end up by raping, torturing and murdering en masse the first Christian nation of the world, for thirty pieces of silver you will get from the Turk and the Jew (which, by now, you all know that they are the same thing, i.e., Jew=Khazar=Turk).
The blood of the first Christian nation of the world is inextricably on all your hands now, not just the depraved Turks’.
You all belong to Allah now.
https://media4.giphy.com/media/l0IypeKl9NJhPFMrK/giphy.gif
You are defending the Turks. Why?
Why are you are mocking the Armenians who are being tortured and murdered continuously by the Turks?
We all know you never give a straight answer, which makes you an especially depraved psychopath indeed.
Keep jerking off to videos of Azeris cutting old men’s ears and heads off, and mutilating young Armenian defenders.
You have Allah’s blessings.
You are defending the Turks. Why?
He is probably not even Turk.
He is just some Sunni a$$hole and happy when Turdogan wins and takes over parts of Syria or any other country.
But he doesn’t like when Turdogan loses.
Turkey taking part of Syria or Libya is OK for him but Armenia is aggressor even when defending their own population of course.
You seem to be a little triggered. https://media0.giphy.com/media/N57KpqDb0tlWE/giphy.gif
You seem to be a Muslim.
hmmmm. Im more of a light of the seven fan
You’re a Jew of course.
Maseltov!:) Though I will not confirm of deny any of your guesses. I will give you a high reward for your effort. Below is the Armenian medal given for successful tactical retreat.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/43eaba5c19c6201030692cb8ced475d43f35898b4558d75daca97dbf67cadd46.jpg
You Frankist Jews went all in this time. I don’t think the goyim will take too much longer to respond to your challenge:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=V3Py1BONZtQ
Have no idea what that is, but sure.
Stop crying you miserable wimp.
And stop being entitled on other peoples lives and demanding to defend you double faced Armenian rats who are stabbing Russia in her back (wanting West on your side and Russia out ) and demanding Russians to die for you in the same time!
Hypocrites!
Russians made the Armenians understand that Russia would not respect their mutual defense treaty if the Armenians “modified” it by incorporating or adding Artsakh into it without explicit de jure Russian consent
You are disgusting hypocrite and I hate all your comments and everything about you.
But still I will tell you this:
Again putting all responsibility and making the blame-game against Russia.
Russia should never defend a country without receiving something in return!
You want “Russians go home” but you want them to defend you and die for free in the same time?!!!?
Russia can make arrangement with Astrakh to stay there and let Turkey invade Armenia.
Turkey would be more than happy with that arrangement.
Armenia had OBLIGATION to RECOGNIZE Astrakh and defend them. And if you do not want Russians than f**k you ask Macron to help!!
Do everything yourselves and do not complain you wimps and hypocrites!
Russia will defend Astrakh and stay there and they might give up on Armenia completely.
Animal.
F**k you!
I hate total hypocrites like you !
You must be living on the West and be either woman or some feminized wimp, queer.
Go to your Macron for help you filthy wimp and never ask Russia for anything!
They should even kick those 4 million Armenian parasites out of Russia to go back to Armenia to defend their country and not wait that Russians for free die for them !
Again,
And stop lying all the time.
No-one asked Russians themselves to fight. All they had to do was close the airspace over NK to Azeri drones and Turkish F-16s by employing a few Electronic Warfare assets around NK. Not ONE Russian life would have been put in danger.
Then, on equal terms with the Azeris, the Armenians would have been able to defend themselves by themselves.
You uncouth lying piece of shit.
And stop lying all the time.
No-one asked Russians themselves to fight. All they had to do was close the airspace over NK to Azeri drones and Turkish F-16s by employing a few Electronic Warfare assets around NK. Not ONE Russian life would have been put in danger.
Then, on equal terms with the Azeris, the Armenians would have been able to defend themselves by themselves.
You uncouth lying piece of shit.
NOTHING FOR FREE!!!
You want Russian help than you MUST DESERVE THAT HELP !!!
Filthy coward Russia has helped so many times and Armenians showed only hat they have no gratitude!
Go f**k yourselves and go to your Macron for help you ungrateful cowards!!!
Here is your 30 pieces of silver from the Turks and the Jews, perfidious Russian.
Weren’t Russians supposed to be orthodox Christians who knew that ‘The love of money is the root of all evil’?
But morality and righteousness are “free” so of no use to Russians like you.
I am not Russian you mad cow !
Armenia is not Orthodox !
I didn’t say Armenians are orthodox Russians. I said the Russians are orthodox Russians.
So why would Orthodox Russian help you than?
Ask Vatican to help you or your Macron his religion is money.
Go f**k yourselves Armenias go to the West if you like them so much just do not complain after you make your choice!
Because Russia is Armenia’s military ally, because it’s the right thing to do — to prevent depraved Muslim Turks from torturing and killing Christian Armenians.
Tell me what your nationality is. If I ever see one of you being killed by the Turks, I’m gonna ask you people for money before I help. I’ll also ask for a room of your house so that I can sell it to the Turks as a garage.
So, what are you, if not Russian? A Turk?
Not true!
Russia is NOT Armenia’s military ally but the CIS is. And Russia and Armenia are CIS members.
Nobody has attacked Armenia so CIS didn’t have to intervene . End of story.
Go ask your Macron for help or even better, seek psychiatric help.
Russia should kick Armenia out of CIS organization.
You love West than go to West for help.
So, what are you if you’re not Russian?
u r like a 1 string guitar—tiresome
As Armenians, we have to look inward and fix our own strategic mistakes. No country or group was obligated to preserve Artsakh, except Armenians ourselves. We didn’t defensively reinforce the areas we took, neglected the military for too long, and took an Anti-Russian stance for the last 2 years with Pashinyan at the helm. We had 26 years to prepare for this war, and failed in that. We have to accept that. For 26 years, Russia preserved the status quo, and I am grateful for that. Armenia didn’t send a single division to Artsakh to fight. Artsakh was left alone and they had no chance against an army of another country, along with Turkey running the Azeri military, drones, etc. I am very sad that this catastrophe happened, but blaming others is not going to fix it. We have to stay loyal to Russia and demonstrate that loyalty with action. Azerbaijan calls Turkey a brother state, and lavishes praise on Turkey endlessly. They speak of 1 nation, 2 states. That is the type of relationship we need to cultivate with Russia if we are going to survive in a tough neighborhood, surrounded by enemies or frenemies. We didn’t recognize Artsakh as an independent country, which would have been a high risk move, but by not taking that risk, it showed our commitment to be weaker and hurt us in the negotiation As for the change in Putin’s relatioship with this disaster Pashinyan, I don’t know for sure, but it can be due to the fact that Pashinyan is very weak now, a known quantity, and unable to carry out any pro-West agenda, which is better for Russia than some new quantity who makes pro-globalist moves which would be the end of Armenia. Russia has much more leverage now with Pashinyan. Some people even speculate that he was working for Russia from the start, but I doubt it. Pashinyan’s western sponsors are calling on him to resign as well, as they know that he can’t do anything for them anymore. They have the next puppet lined up, I’m sure.
I disagree with you.
1. I am more critical of Armenians than anyone I know. Yes, I would have recognized and annexed Artsakh. However I am not going to blame the Armenians for their decision re the recognition of Artsakh because it’s their ass on the line, not mine.
2. Russia has *betrayed* Armenians in 1917-23, giving away Armenian lands that didn’t belong to Russia to the Turks. Furthermore, Russia (albeit largely under Jewish Bolshevik rule, same as today really), *allied* itself with the Turks post WWI and enabled Ataturk to win the war against the Greeks with Russian aid, providing arms, supplies, gold, and logistics.
3. More recently, Russia delivered advanced T-90 tanks and more sophisticated weapons to the Azeris who are the *enemies* of Russia’s *allies* the Armenians. That’s another instance of material betrayal right there. Money (weapons sales) is not more important than national and strategic interests. Obviously, the Russians are lying about their alliance with Armenia. The Russians have de facto terminated the CSTO defense pact by their open betrayal of their Armenian ally.
4. Yes, Artsakh is not party to the CSTO pact. But Russia made it clear to the world, including the Azeris and the Armenians, that Russia considered Artsakh and adjacent territories part of Azerbaijan, by demanding that Armenians vacate them. It’s clear that Russia would have NEVER supported the Armenian side EVEN if Armenia proper had been attacked by the Turks and Azerbaijan in a war for Artsakh. Why are YOU, an Armenian, so obtuse about such an obvious fact? All or parts of Armenia proper would have been subject to Turkish invasion in that eventually, with Russian acquiescence.
5. Russia has never enabled Armenians to prevail in ANY war against the Turks. To the contrary, Russia has returned lands conquered from the Turks BACK to the Turks. So stop pretending that Russians are allies of the Armenians in the same way that Turks are (true) allies of the Azeris. Russians manipulate Armenians as they see fit. Just this last war has proved that money is more important than anything else, including Armenia, to the Russians.
6. FYI, the Russians are now gloating secretly that they were able to turn Armenia’s failure to their advantage by taking control of the Silk Road under the guise of providing a peace-keeping mission around the road passage going through Southern Armenia between Nakhichevan and Azerbaijan. Woe be to these perfidious Russian morons. The Turks are going to manipulate and take advantage of the Russians at every turn.
In conclusion,
Just like with their brilliant idea of making an ally of Ataturk and Turkey against the British etc. in 1922; the Russians again will have shot themselves in the foot by collaborating with the Turks who NEVER give more than they take.
Just like the Russians ended up with NATO at their doorsteps instead of a staunch Turkish ally as a bulwark against the British; the Russians will end up with Turkey and NATO inexorably encircling Russia along most of its southern flank all the way to China — the very same China who have very cosy relations with the Turks and Israelis (USA) already.
Say hello to your much-feared complete isolation and economic strangulation, Russia. Russians, you did it to yourselves so you have no-one else to blame.
Armenia might have been a piece-of-shit nothing of a country populated by talentless and hopeless humans beings endlessly persecuted by the depraved Turks — but little Armenia was your (inexistant) honor, Russians. Armenia was the final test of your intellect and vision as to where vital Russian interests lay.
By siding with the Turks AGAINST their own national and strategic interests, the Russians have shown the world that Russians are just a bunch depraved morons willing to sacrifice their honor and their future for the Turks’ and the Jews’ thirty pieces of silver.
I will watch with bemusement as Russia disintegrates and is eaten alive by all sides.
Armenia’s fate is in God’s hands now. The same God that created the Turk, the Russians and the Jews.
And some people want to live forever in this world…
First of all, my #1 goal is a prosperous and secure Armenia now and for the next 100 years. It looks like the policies of the past 30 years have not been working. When policies are not working, we have to work together to correct the course.
1. We always advocated for Artsakh independence but the Armenian government was never excited about it. They always treated Artsakh like it was an autonomous zone in Azerbaijan, for unclear reasons.
2. I have read the texts from Russian, Turkish, and Armenian point of view for that era. If it were not for the Bolshevik revolution, Russia would have kept Eastern Turkey / Western Armenia under its empire. The revolution was the worst news for Armenians and also for Russians as well. The Russians retreated from WW1 since they had a civil war and the soldiers went to fight for their country’s existence. It was not a betrayal of Armenians but a revolution in their country that took precedence. Czarist Russia was more aggressive towards the Ottoman Empire than Bolshevik Russia towards Turkey. Critically, the Turkish – Armenian war of 1920, which wasn’t a war but a one sided massacre, resulted in Turks reaching the gates of Yerevan. We lost big areas of the new country of Armenia. The treaty of Alexandrapol which would have left Armenia with a tiny state consisting of essentially Yerevan in demilitarized form, more like a city state. The Bolshevik Armenian forces with the Russians came from the east and pushed the Turks west, and we get the treaty of Kars in 1921. Were it not for the Russia coming from the East, there would only be a completely non-viable Armenia country instead of Armenia SSR which was landlocked and difficult but still prospered at times especially in 1970s. .
3. Since Artsakh was still recognized as part of Azerbaijan, Russia did not have a pact to intervene there, but they did anyway on November 10. The Armenian armed forces never commited to the recent war. If Armenia is not willing to deploy its own armed forces, we shouldn’t expect other countries to fight instead of us. With us, sure, but not instead of us, which is an unreasonable expectation as a smaller power compared to a bigger power. That’s just the way it works. Still with Russian peacekeepers, Russia prevented a massacre of at least 25,000 Armenians in Stepanakert, which would have been defenseless civilians.
4. In 1990s, Turkey massed troops on the border and Russia warned them, and they pulled back. This time, if Turkey was insane enough to invade Armenia, I am 100% sure Russia would have defended Armenia. Armenia never recognized Artsakh independence and was the critical mistake for the past 26 years. By not doing so, Russia can point to that and correctly, say no one is saying Artsakh ia part of Armenia. One thing that helps me is getting into the shoes of our allies, neutral parties, and enemies, and trying to look at the world from their angle, without emotions. Armenia was seen as on occupying power, which is a terrible place to be in, regarding the surrounding buffer areas. Even Israel with all their power, when they are annexing areas like Golan or West bank, they are being seen in an illegitimate and illegal way.
Russia gave us 26 years to annex or recognize at least Artsakh (NKAO) region as independent. We didn’t do that, and it is not possible to stay in a grey zone.
5. I agree that Russia is not as strong ally as Azeri to Turkey, but they are the same ethnic group, Turkish, although difference Islamic group. However, Azeri constanly refers to Turkey as their brother and will almost do anything for Turkey. They are loyal / obedient. If we show more appreciation and call Russia as our brother state, the outcome may be better. Russia still did intervene and saved most of the NKAO and prevented wholesale massacres. Believe me, I hate this outcome but we are not going to recover if we blame outside forces and powers. Russia did reverse the disastrous state of the treaty of Alexdrapol in 1920 by pushing the Turks back at that point. The Genocide was the root cause of a lot of our failures from 1917 to 1923. That is why the Turks did it, so we would be left with few male troops to defend Armenia from 1920 onwards.
6. I don’t like this corridor idea either, but it will provide some leverage in the future, especially if it becomes a vital corridor. However, I would not have agreed to that condition until Turkey accepted the Genocide. Open borders with Turkey would be a trojan horse against Armenia.
I don’t think Armenia is full of talent-less individuals, however the brain drain for 30 years has been crisping Armenia. As Armenians, we do so well in other countries, but it seems like as soon as we govern ourselves, we fall into conflict and divisions, for hundreds of years. These inner divisions are the root cause of a lot of our problems through the years. Everyone wants to be a chief, and not enough Indians. In Moscow, there are several Armenian billionaires, and hundreds of educated and wealthy Armenians in the West, but when it comes to our own country, there is endless emigration and corruption. As Armenians we have to make a vow, never to lie, cheat, or steal from another Armenian (and any other people as well). We have strayed far from the principles of Christianity, although that is true of anywhere in the world.
Also, there are millions of Turkic people in Russia and the surrounding countries. If Russia was seen as blatantly taking the side of Armenia in a war which the world recognized as happening in Azerbaijan, it would have been detrimental to Russia’s interests, especially if Russian troops starting killing Turks.
Even if you think the Russians are not and have never done enough for Armenians, it is still 1000 times more than any Western power, who have generally openly or under the table, been on the side of the Turks. Lets focus on what Russia is doing for us, instead of complaining as to what they are not doing. That is not going to help.
Thank you for taking the time to respond in
detail.
I will not waste your time.
You have ignored the fact that Russians allied themselves with the Turks in the Greco-Turkish war of 1919-22. It was a willful Russian decision to the detriment of all the indigenous Christian peoples of the region.
You have ignored the fact that Russians claim that Artsakh belongs to Azerbaijan, and that therefore Russians would not have supported Armenia in a war over Artsakh. That being the case, the Turks and the Azeris would overrun Armenia and genocide the remaining Armenians.
I do not admire the Armenians of Armenia. I disagree with them. However neither you nor I ought to have the presumption that we can decide what is best for them. Had they chosen to recognize or annex Artsakh it would have been tantamount to genocide and destruction of Armenia because the Russians GUARANTEED that they would not side with Armenia in a war over Artsakh. You are denying this fact so I can’t have a further conversation with you on this matter.
I will say this as a parting note. I don’t like most Armenians, diasporan or from the Caucuses. None I spoke with really liked me neither. To not waste your time, I’ll just say that most Armenians are stupid, ignorant, corrupt, compromised, and unpatriotic when push comes to shove.
It is a miracle that Armenians still exist today.
Thanks again.
Czarist Russia of 1916 was a completely different country with different policies compared to the Communist Russia of 1919. The Bolshevik revolution was not good for Armenia’s interests in our historical lands. I don’t diagree that Russia likely did not want Armenia to recognize or annex Artsakh, but we will never know what may have happened. I doubt that if Armenia annexed Artsakh (NKAO borders), and if Turkey invaded Armenia, that Russia would allow massacre of millions of Armenians in a CSTO state. Russia may not have recognized Artsakh’s independence, however. That is why it is a high risk move, and the government did not do it.
I am sorry you feel that way about our people. I agree that there are many flaws, and flawed people, and we have to improve, but I have not given up no Armenia or Armenians. We have many assets and although we are at a bottom, we will climb out of it using our minds and not emotions.
I commend your perseverance and faith in the Armenian people. I wish more of them were people of your caliber.
I think we can both agree on that Russia is a necessary evil that Armenians have to deal with as a relative counterweight against the utter and unmitigated evil of the Turk.
Keep in mind that all the Russians had to do — and this, without putting a single Russian life nor interest at stake — was provide the usage of a few Electronic Warfare (EW) assets and perhaps a few units of modern short- and medium-range SAM systems to the Armenians of NK.
Armenians of NK would not have lost any part of Artsakh and would not have suffered catastrophic losses if the Russians had lent a few military assets.
Despite all their problems, I know of no instance of the Americans knowingly enabling and thus instantiating the massacre of their military allies’ allies or friends or brothers when they needed the Americans’ help. The Russians clearly sided with the Turks and the Azeris. The Armenians were on their own. Armenia proper was afraid to openly engage the Turks for reasons known. Despite their tactical failures (using armor in open territory without air cover, keeping army units undispersed in tightly-populated trenches, and perhaps not innovating by using infrared vision equipment along with some type of scatter gun against the loitering munitions, etc.) and their lack of appropriate SAM systems, the Armenians of Armenia fought valiantly and killed as many Turkish, Azeri and Islamist monsters as the losses in their ranks. That’s one hell of an achievement that speaks to their military prowess and fighting spirit.
Always remember. Jews hate Armenians and they are the Armenians’ greatest enemy along with the Turks. Russians are not full-fledged normal human beings. Russians are more like force of nature that flows in the direction it perceives the most favorable. Russians are as much a problem as they are a solution.
And the continued existence of the Armenian is simply a miracle, knowing the division and perfidy that infests the people.
Take care.
Armenia didn’t risk anything at all in the past, by recognizing Astrakh.
Not doing it was betrayal of your own people there.
Armenia is member of CIS security organization and protected by Russia.
There was no alternative to recognition of Astrakh and it is still not too late.
Russia ( even if they would not be pleased ) would respect sovereign decision of Armenia (as they always did for any country)
If all Armenians were like you I am sure that many volunteers from other countries would rush to help Armenia and Astrakh.
But unfortunately too many Armenians are like that i d i o t
Arman Melkonyan and he sounds absolutely disgusting when he opens his mouth.
As I said before, I am/was for not only recognizing but incorporating Artsakh into Armenia proper.
But I’m not from Armenia and I must respect the decisions of the people whose lives are on the line, unlike mine.
The Russians would have stood by and watch the Turks invade Armenia and commit another genocide, though, over any war involving Artsakh.
The Russians made it clear that they do not consider Artsakh nor the adjoining territories to belong to Armenians.
THEREFORE,
The Russians would have declared Armenians to be the AGGRESSORS in ANY war involving Artsakh and the lands between Artsakh and Armenia. And thus, the Russians would have declined to support Armenia against the Turks and the Azeris, claiming that the CSTO is a pact for *defense* — not a pact for participating in military aggression initiated by any of the signatories including Armenia.
Just like they did recently anyway.
I did not post this for the benefit of trolls like you, by the way. Just in case there were a few lurkers around whose brains can register information that’s independent and objective.
I will not read your CRAP comments (including this one) ever again
You can go f*ck yourself Turk!
Jew,
Why don’t you go fight in Artsakh by the way and get killed by your own Israeli drones against which the Armenians were defenseless?
Looks like you Jews are chafing at the bit that Armenians were not totally annihilated — again.
You Jews murder and hate the Armenians so much yet have the chutzpah to call them “anti Semitic.”
F*CK you Turk Zionist p i g !
Since Armenia legally is not involved in any land dispute anymore, integration to a certain organization is possible:)))))
Turkey will use its veto to block Armenia’s integration into NATO.
maybe
No it is not.
Russia can arrange with Turkey to invade parts of Armenia, while Russia will ignore all that and not react at all.
what you talking about?
this dispute is largely settled. in 5 years accommodations will be made and Russia will leave unless both want them to stay. Armenian corruption and incompetence was displayed; likely Azeris did not need the few hundred Syrians reported to have assisted
It is not settled.
It is settled only because Russian presence prevents terror against Astrakh population.
Russia will not leave because Astrakh – N. Karabakh population doesn’t trust Armenian “protection” (with reason) and doesn’t trust Azerbaijan either.
So they themselves will ask Russians to stay forever.
The motive for war stays untouched so no reason for Russia to leave before permanent political solution is found.
Frozen conflict, that’s the point.