Élysée Palace where Macron and Scholz told Zelensky to seek peace. (U.S. State Dept.)
Written by Joe Lauria via ConsortiumNews.com,
Western leaders privately told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that Ukraine can not win the war against Russia and that it should begin peace talks with Moscow this year in exchange for closer ties with NATO.
The private communications are at odds with public statements from Western leaders who routinely say they will continue to support Ukraine for as long as it takes until it achieves victory on the battlefield.
The Wall Street Journal, which reported on the private remarks to Zelenksy, said:
“The public rhetoric masks deepening private doubts among politicians in the U.K., France and Germany that Ukraine will be able to expel the Russians from eastern Ukraine and Crimea, which Russia has controlled since 2014, and a belief that the West can only help sustain the war effort for so long, especially if the conflict settles into a stalemate, officials from the three countries say.
‘We keep repeating that Russia mustn’t win, but what does that mean? If the war goes on for long enough with this intensity, Ukraine’s losses will become unbearable,’ a senior French official said.
‘And no one believes they will be able to retrieve Crimea.’
French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz told Zelensky at an Élysée Palace dinner earlier this month that he must consider peace talks with Moscow, the Journal reported.
According to its source, the newspaper quoted Macron as telling Zelensky that “even mortal enemies like France and Germany had to make peace after World War II.”
Macron told Zelensky “he had been a great war leader, but that he would eventually have to shift into political statesmanship and make difficult decisions,” the newspaper reported.
Macron at the Munich Security Conference last week. (Kuhlmann/MSC)
A Return to Realism
At the Munich Security Conference last week, Gen. Petr Pavel, the Czech Republic’s president-elect and a former NATO commander, said:
“We may end up in a situation where liberating some parts of Ukrainian territory may deliver more loss of lives than will be bearable by society. … There might be a point when Ukrainians can start thinking about another outcome.”
Even when he was a NATO commander Pavel was a realist in regard to Russia. During controversial NATO war games with 31,000 troops on Russia’s borders in 2016 — the first time in 75 years that German troops had retraced the steps of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union — Pavel dismissed hype about a Russian threat to NATO.
Pavel, who was chairman of NATO’s military committee at the time, told a Brussels press conference that, “It is not the aim of NATO to create a military barrier against broad-scale Russian aggression, because such aggression is not on the agenda and no intelligence assessment suggests such a thing.”
The German foreign minister at the time, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, also embraced realism towards Russia, saying: “What we shouldn’t do now is inflame the situation further through saber-rattling and warmongering. Whoever believes that a symbolic tank parade on the alliance’s eastern border will bring security is mistaken.”
Instead of an aggressive NATO stance towards Russia that could backfire, Steinmeier called for dialogue with Moscow. “We are well-advised to not create pretexts to renew an old confrontation,” he said, saying it would be “fatal to search only for military solutions and a policy of deterrence.” Under U.S. leadership NATO clearly did not follow that advice, as it continued to deploy more troops to Eastern Europe and to arm and train Ukraine (under cover of pretending to back the Minsk Accords).
Before its intervention in Ukraine, Russia cited NATO’s eastward expansion, the deployment of missiles in Romania and Poland, war games near its borders and the arming of Ukraine as red lines that the West had crossed.
After a year of war, Western leaders appear now to be turning to a realist approach. Macron, for instance, at the Munich Security Conference dismissed any talk of regime change in Moscow.
Left to Right: Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock at Munich Security Conference. (Schulmann/MSC)
No US Reaction
Washington has not commented on the Journal‘s story about the peace talks-for-arms proposal.
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken last month discussed with The Washington Post arming Ukraine post-war but he did not say that Ukraine should seek peace talks.
“We have to be thinking — and we are — about what the postwar future looks like to ensure that we have security and stability for Ukrainians and security and stability in Europe,” Blinken told the conference in Munich.
The proposal to bring Ukraine even closer to NATO than it already is, with greater access to weapons after the war, should be on the agenda at NATO’s annual meeting in July, said Rishi Sunak, the British prime minister, at the Munich conference.
“The NATO summit must produce a clear offer to Ukraine, also to give Zelensky a political win that he can present at home as an incentive for negotiations,” a British official told the Journal.
The deal with NATO would not include membership with its Article 5 protection, the newspaper reported. “We would like to have security guarantees on the path to NATO,” Zelensky told a press conference on Friday.
In the meantime, Macron, according to the WSJ report, said that Ukraine should press forward with a military offensive to regain territory in order to push Moscow to the peace table.
There has been no reaction from Moscow about the proposal. Political analyst Alexander Mercouris, in his video report on Saturday, said Russia would likely be incentivized to continue fighting rather than enter peace talks with the knowledge that Ukraine would be heavily armed by NATO after the war.
“The Russians are never going to agree with something like this,” Mercouris said.
“They must be saying to themselves that instead of agreeing to this plan, it actually makes more sense … to continue this war because one of [Russia’s] objectives is the total demilitarization of Ukraine.”
What the Western powers are proposing is the opposite, he said. Given that Russia considers it is winning and “there seems to be a general acknowledgment amongst Western governments that Ukraine can’t win this war, …where is the incentive for … Russia to even consider this plan?”
For Moscow, Mercouris said, Ukraine’s demilitarization is an “absolute, existential matter.”
If Ukraine is going to get even more advanced weapons from NATO after the war as opposed to what it would get “whilst the war is still underway, then it makes even less sense” for Russia “to stop the war and agree to this plan.”
Russia is facing a “weakening adversary now,” Mercouris said, and Moscow clearly prefers that to facing a “strengthened adversary later.”
Well, in principle you can win the war… if you dont mind being immediately wiped off from the face of planet Earth with hypersonic nukes. (at least you will have some sloppy seconds alive thou)
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Total demilitarization of Ukraine is not possible, this is a foregone conclusion. Whatever would remain of Ukraine will be heavily militarized.
There are 3 outcomes of this war:
1) Frozen conflict: Minsk-3 on steroids, no one would be happy and it will restart after a couple of years. Weapons will continue to flow and Slovyansk, Ugledar etc. are very close.
2) Cold peace: Ukraine will leave 4 oblasts, it won’t serve Russian interests since the rest of Ukraine will be still strong enough to threaten Russian proper (Kharkov is not far from Belgorod). Weapons will still continue to flow.
3) Geographical border: Russia will take east of Dnieper and destroy all bridges and connections to Russian proper. 10-15 km buffer zone like in Kherson. Safest one.
Ukraine is just the side show. It’s US hegemony that is at stake in this war.
4) Russian and Belorussian forces will start a final offensive and Take ALL of Ukraine.
5) Nuke NATO.
Vous plaisantez (?) Tampon de 10-15 kms ….. C’est de la pisse comme analyse! Odeyssa-Transnitrie-au dessus de Tcherkassy à 50kms dessous Kiev- et Nord est Russie !!!
Fixing the Ukraine War
The William White Plan
1. Drop all the sanctions, new Government; none of the existing members are eligible
2. EU to rebuild NS 1&2, Russia will sell gas to the EU for half of what the Americans are currently charging, price increase to the cost of living for 20 years.
3. Ukraine Neutral, no army, no weapons, no NATO, Russia to provide protection and Police services for 50 years.
4. Russia takes to the River , Odessa is Russian but the Port will be free for Ukraine to ship through.
5. The Rump stays but the Nazi’s must go. Any talk of Nazism will result in long jail sentences or death.
6. Freedom of Religion and language to be guaranteed.
7. Election must be fair and democratic, certified by the UN, no foreign powers allowed on Ukrainian soil at any time unless licensed by Russia.
8. No nuclear weapons in Countries bordering Russia.
9. No western Banks in Russia or Ukraine.
10. Foreign embassies to have a staff of no more than 50 people all accounted for at all times. No attachments to foreign governments [fake embassies].
11. All foreign business’ wishing to do business in Ukraine must obtain a license from Russia. No appeals.
12. Ukraine must pay all rebuilding costs from the war, any foreign contractors must be approved and supervised by Russia.
13. Russia will control all border points, Visa and passport departments for Ukraine. No duel citizenship for Ukrainians. To retain Citizenship Ukrainians must physically live in Ukraine at least 200 days per year, minimum stay 90 consecutive days. People wishing to travel must be up to date on their taxes or they can’t leave, maximum $20k US dollars equivalent allowed to take out of the country.
14. No foreign Land owner or corporation can own any more than $500k US dollar equivalent in property.
I look upon this as a starting point, greater minds than mine are available, I would start with Mr. Lavrov
@Mr White
Your “peace plan” is infact a plan for the next war – as the next war is guaranteed with your evil plan.
That peace-plan is worse than death. Nobody will accept it.
You want to enslave Ukraine and make it become a 2nd israeli-style occupied territory. Fuck you !!! Eternal conflict is what will ensue from it. Alone from this it is clear:
Quote: “Russia will control all border points, Visa and passport departments for Ukraine. No duel citizenship for Ukrainians ….
I tell you
..Russia will not even control its own toilets nor asses if it continues its aggression against other souveran nations. The jewish chabad puppet Putin drove you into big shit, which will soon be expanded to World War, and at the end of that Russia will cease to exist – not because of the West but because you brainwashed maniacs got pushed/stimulized into thinking being supermen, by these jews which then led you into total catastrophe on full purpose. Mark my words.
No survival for arrogant flatheads this way !
I have laid out a true peace plan in one of my above posts, study it, and thing about it. From it will ensue no hate nor war. And nobody gets enslaved or robbed.
More lkely You will live in Ruthenia and Capitol Kiev
Nice plan Willian
another amerikan astrologer
IT IS GENOCIDE, sides don’t matter, as dark covers light.
Le génocide se passe en France avec la submersion migratoire de 22 millions d’extra-européens coût : 200 milliards d’euros !!!
With such incompetent diplomats telling them what to do the neonazi ukrainian criminal army is headed for complete destruction. No German tank to reach ukraine soil will leave that territory intact. If they want to fight to the death, then let the Just forces of the Russian Federation give them their death wish.
Promptly.
And 2,15% Nazis run Ukriane?
Russia has to take entire UA and Moldova, if looking to have peace and stability and buffer zone from NATO. Anything less than that will be danger for Russia and stability at Russia borders. Putin better take the advice, as unfinish jobs always bites back later.
@Sam
The opposite is true. Widening the war will escalate into WW3. That’s for sure !
Putin messed it up. But not only in 2022 but already 8 years ago, when after US Blackwater jewish Victoria Newland (a jewess with real name Nudelman) Putin did nothing, and let the pro-russian president being chased away like a dog. Then he set beside and looked and watch calmly for 8 (!!!) full year, only to then suddenly decide that it is now time to invade. And with this kind of acting he messed it all up. And – and at least to me that seems likely – he did this on purpose. (resp. likely his Chabad Lubavitch masters ordered him to attack on this satanic date 666 / 24 F.2022 that is 2+4=6 , F=6 , 2+0+2+2=6 so it gives 666) . See, self-defence, you can claim when someone beat you and you beat back. But if someone beats you, and you do nothing, then you cannot come AFTER 8 YEARS kill him and his whole country, and then claim that to be “self-defence”. No, it is not. Not anymore after that long time of 8 fuckin years !
Btw. Russia has enough land. The do not need Donbass Donetsk , Lugansk for industrial survival of the Russian federation. But Ukraine does need this mineral-rich territories for its economical survival. That’s fact. The people in the mentioned regions, indeed are pro-russian, feel russian, and hate the ukraine government and all pro-government people. So these both different kind of people obviously can t live together anymore. Hope to this point at least, we all agree here. Then now look what the US and Europe are spending on war, and what russia is spending on war. Wouldn t it be much more clever, to instead of wasting all that precious money on stupid war, and kill each other to just sit on the table and give each Donetsk and Lugansk, Donbass etc. family 8-10 mio $ for that they leave and move/re-settle to their beloved Russia ? With that money, they will be the kings over there, will have likely much bigger house and garden, and life will be much easier for them. No missiles, no war, enough money, only russians not “evil ukrainians” around them. So what’s the matter ? Where’s the problem ?
I’ll tell you ! The problem is: Both ! USA+EU as well as Putin-Russia are not interested in making peace and solvethe Donbassproblem in a peaceful way. Why ? Because both (!) USA+EU as well as Putin-Russia are controlled and dominated by jews. And these jews (behind the scenes) are the ones really calling the shots. And they do not want peace. They want that the christian nations and people’s jumping to each others throats and mercilessly slaughter each other !! That’s what the whole thing is all about. All else the medias are telling to “explain” what is happening is just bullshit !
Only took em a year and 110 billion to figure it out
According to the Kiel Institute, actually $153 Billion as of Jan 15th, 2023 (€143,6 billion) which is more than double the Russian annual military budget of $65.9 billion.
Reports by VOA (Voice of America), the Russian military budget for 2023 has increased to $83 billion. However, this amount is still significantly less than the $153 billion in direct military aid that was sent to Ukraine in the past year. And it will still be less than what Ukraine will gobble up this year.
So for the collective West Ukraine might end up being a blackhole to their economies and it looks like they crossed the event horizon already with their words and actions towards Russia. So there is pretty much no point of return now, the US and its chihuahua puppet states in NATO made sure of this, they either utterly destroy Russia or get wrecked (slowly by emerging geo-political realities or instantly by nukes).
Afghanistan alone cost the US, $2.3 Trillion even with the support of other NATO countries, and they still lost after 21 years. I have a feeling this will cost a lot more than that. Not even counting other costs like their insane attempts to pick on China.
This is why they are trying to offload the costs on 3rd parties like India, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea. India so far as played the game by fence seating in reality they are well aware that joining NATO actions no matter their feelings towards China would be a disastrous Faustian bargain.
Japan, Taiwan, South Korea are currently political occupied by US puppets, but wouldn’t last long without enormous help from US paper printer. Their armies are a rounding error in comparison to China.
Australia and New Zealand…will also be added to the meat grinder. Global South will need to be forced militarily to give up their resources, but this isn’t feasible anymore when you only make up 15% of the world population. Unless NATO use nukes on the rest of the world they are fucked.
UN votes for symbolic resolutions mean nothing, actions matter since they speak louder than words. And that the fact that the other 75% refused to join their sanctions even when pressured and threatened says a lot.
Thats not correct. The marslanders knows more then You.
You are inside the zoo.
Second Leopard 2 destroyed by Wagner tonight!
Is it confirmed?
Oh, Ihor. It’s not my fault that the US overthrew your government and you Banderites are crazy enough to whore yourselves out to them. How many dead Ukrainians leaking that precious genome into the dirt since the US coup in 2014? How many meat-bags carrying that precious Ukrainian magic DNA off to Russia, or Poland, or Canada, or Germany since the US coup? You seem to like numbers, Ihor, so give it a shot.
I hope Zelenskyy fights long and hard to the last Ukrainian Natzie, that way Iran can get nooks while the treasonous, Israel-first, Psionist slaves in the government, in the intel and in the military are bogged down in the hopeless Ukraine proxy war. Slava Bashar Hafez al-Assad. Slava Putin.
@Psionists
One thing everybody claiming that USA is fighting Russia needs to think about is, that the USA and its slaves in EU (apart from not delivering even halfway that amount of weapons they delivered to the UDSSR in WW2) always declare in advance to the whole world what they are delivering to Ukraine nowadays.
They do this, so that the Russias have enough time to prepare themselves, and for making the weapons being merely ineffective or getting destroyed so that more are needed soon etc. etc.
Here we see it very very clear that it is jews on both sides running the show. They want the war. They want christians killing each other. They want it to drag on. They want to escalate it slowly into WW3.
A thousand times I told it here, that would USA indeed be fighting Russia, they would keep absolute silence about the weapons they deliver to Ukraine. Moreover they would have long started a second front in the soft-belly area of Russia, resp. Caucasus, in specific – Chechnya. Apart from that, like the Russians do with PMC Wagner, USA would have mobilized US as well as mexican and colombian prisoners, recruited and started military training programs with them in order to send them in appropriate numbers, as support troops to Ukrainian army. But nothing of all this happens. Why?
It’s not because in the US nobody can see what is needed to defeat Russia and win this war. No. Winning the war IS NOT THE AIM of this whole thing. Defeating their NWO-buddy Putin and his regime is not the aim ! The aim is to drag the war on, widen it slowly into WW3, and use it to blackout the corona-death-jab global genocide plus the forced implosion of old financial system and finally western economy in a whole. The financial system is a jewish fraud from the very beginning and the western economy was destroyed from within, on full purpose, by jewish-communist traitors, placed inside the western countries already tens of years ago, with the infiltration starting already in the late 1950’s !
It’s the main ingredient of the so-called communist-long term strategy !!! Russia KGB Bezmenov admitted resp. leaked that already back in the 1970/80’s.
USA didn t fight Russia in WW1, and not in WW2, instead they worked hand-in-hand and USA supplied UDSSR with large ship-convoys full of weapons, ammunition and gear. And of course also now in looming WW3 USA and Russia are working together, as they are bothz controlled by jews, who want to start the next World War. World War Z !
Wake up folks ! It’s the JWO-NWO plan to switch the whole world into full-force jewish-communist One-World-Government Police State ! That’s the agenda they are all (from Biden, to Trump, Putin, Merkel, Scholz, Xi Jinping, Johnson etc. etc.) working to execute against us.
War?! 15 years in prison immediately! Special military operation. Special military operation. Let’s repeat one more time. Special military operation!
Ihor, you can call it Battle of the Bands if you want, the only thing that matters if that your Banderite chums have been turned into taco meat to the tune of perhaps 100 000 corpses, while millions of Ukrainians fled the failed CIA project and the state lost Crimea and four oblasts, while the entire population has been impoverished and traumatized. Special something, that’s for sure, Ihor.
That must be a bitter pill to swallow after all these leaders have been egging on zelensky and providing him with weapons, taxpayers money, and bbc bullshit.
Then again, zelensky has probably swallowed worse.
It is going to be so much fun watching Ukraine go crazy when they submit to Russia and meet all of their demands and then some.
And then it will dawn on them that they should have surrendered on Feb 25 2022.
When US Ukraine and EU lied with Minst agreement, nobody will trust them includes Russia.
this truly is a piece of BULLSHIT ARTICLE – blurbs like ‘closer ties to NATO’ is pure fantasy land and delusional mentality. Whoever wrote this is definitely out of touch with REALITY!
The Chinese put out several papers about possible routes for peace. The way the Chinese roll, is this. They offer a peace plan, if you do not accept it, they will achieve the peace plan the hard way which is to provide military aid to Russia. Sources say, over the past year, China has cranked up war time production of everything Russia needs to steam roll NATO in Ukraine.
They don’t say it directly, which is how the Chinese do things, but I assure you, that’s exactly what they will do.
@none
Yes, this way the chinese now financially enslave the russians. First they enslave them, then they support clandistinely the war with fake peace proposals and more weapons.
More and more russians will die. The russian vast territory landmass already now is just sparely (not densly) settled with humans. After intensive years of war will be even less settled. And Russia be completely indebted with China. And will then have to allow millions over millions of chinese “businessmen” aka settlers into its territory and give away its land to the yellows. Yes great for the russians. Regardless what they do they are fucked.
They have the option to leave Ukraine alone, accept its souveran borders and respect international law. Or further escalate things, wastes mio of soldiers and trillions of rubles, get fully indebted with China – and finally lose everything.
They have the choice and can choose what to do – at least the russians think so, but no. As they are ruled by a jewish elite oligarch class which is taking all the resources and profits from Russia, and decides which way the country goes, I’d say they russians are fucked – because the jews will of course prefer the war-option, and drown the russians into eternal war and debts.
It’s all bullshit. The USA just made sure that Russia will form even closer ties with China. Yes, they destroyed economic ties between Russia and Germany (EU), but It’s easy talking to the EU or even Russia who so desperately wanted to be a part of European cultural sphere. What they’ve achieved now is total alienation of Russia which will have no scruples of arming various dissidents where the USA would not want that to happen. There is only so much money to be gain from war, but much much to lose. If they wanted to conquer the world, better to use Hollywood or McDonalds, more effective. Either this is a diversion from Covid madness or an intro to something much bigger. I can’t believe Americans woule be that stupid.
@Juuh
Your name is the reason and course and curse to mankind. It’s not Americans to be that stupid. It’s Joo’s Juuh’s resp. Jews behind it on both sides USA and Russia.
Global financial system is controlled by jewish bankers family Rothschild. Pharma and medical and other related industries are under control of his buddy Rockefeller and his ‘foundation’.
All the puppets of the jews are eighter subordinated to open freemasonic lodges, jewish only lodges (like Bnai Brith where Angela Merkel is member of) or arc-lodges (like Golden Eurasia, Putin and Merkel are both members of)
To this add the superrich jewish messianic endtime sect Chabad Lubavitch. Putin is part of them, Trumps daughter’s husband (Jared Kuschner is so too)
Chabad are pseudo-religious madmen, and sicko numerologics, satanic jewish devil-worshippers. So no wonder they ordered their satanic Putin attack against Ukraine on 666 date (24.F.2022) 2+4=6, F=6 , 2+0+2+2= 6 .
They feel that this is their holy mission, and that as soon as the whole world is in flames and “cleansed” through total World War Armaggeddon, their Messiah ben David aka ben Jacob will come, and the whole world will be jewish – with each jew then having at least 20 goyim slaves to his free disposal. Isn t that a nice ideology ? This is the real threat to mankind, as with these parasite mankind faces the most evil world-enemy of all times !!
These evil creatures we need to fight, not each other !
If that few jews run that much where Yiu are, its You own fault.
The differnce is education levels and by that raised living standards and longer lives.
Its reaons is many more decide in sober ways and trust in all levels and they can be replaced by comptent organs.
You remain as no deciders, because You have decided one brain is better then many.even it act lke a not upfated win95.
Ypu not een has vocabularies to descriebe what we are and make. You have in the cheepest way replaced it with “Jews”.
So there is no change. At the Tzars and other parts of EatsrenEurope most people was runned by him, the upprclass and very much the dummy making church. That has not changes.
Russia is not the people living there at all. Its more like the upperclass and the spendables.
2023–expect more aggressive tactics by Russia, ukies will lose more territory—ukie infrastructure will be further degraded…more amerikan weapons demand use of more lethal force vs ukies—they may lose Odessa and Kharkov
No matter we painted You, You are not even upgraded to white trash.
They can’t admit anything without the accept of the Great Whore. Little whores always work under the patronage of one MADAM.
All of these lives thrown away for the Synagogue of Satan (Revelation 2:9; 3:9) and its drive for a GloboHomo World Government. Russia must dust Zelensky and win this thing outright as the beginning of the end for these bastards and their evil plans globally.
Where is the Ghost of Kiev?? is he on vacation?