General Joseph Votel, commander of U.S. Central Command, delivers remarks at the National Council on at 26th Annual Arab-U.S. Policymakers Conference in Washington, U.S., October 18, 2017. REUTERS/Yuri Gripas
US Central Command chief General Joseph Votel said on January 29 that the US is not going to pull out its forces from Syria’s Manbij despite Turksih statements to launch a military operation against the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) there.
Earlier in January, Turkey’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced that Turkish forces are going to clear the entire Turkish border from “terrorists” [the Kurdish-dominated SDF] and that Manbij will be among the targets of the operation.
According to official reports, the US has about 2,000 troops deployed in northern Syria. These troops are embedded with SDF units.
Turkey’s Operation Olive Branch against Kurdish forces in Afrin and the US support to the SDF have already complicated the diplomatic relations between Ankara and Washington. The ongoing tensions will grow dramatically if Ankara makes an attempt to clear Manbij from the US-backed forces.
fools
Never has it been so obvious that America want a war with someone.
Agreed Jerry. Somehow, it doesn’t appear to matter who they engage with in this war except, of course, their faithful allies, Wahabi Saudi Arabia and Zionist Israel.
I bet the Israeli laugh at them when their president pardon the attack on USS liberty.
I argued with an israeli guy on a forum about that.
He said they were spying on us, they got what they deserved.
Thing is… America loves Israel. Israel hates America.
No big thing really. Most of the world hate America. And Israel.
The U.S. needs a war really Bad, save the dollar, save the Oil, save the FED, save the Deep State, save THEIR WORLD, tryin’ to save their face, save “Democracy”, save the Multinationals, save Mickey Mouse…..This shows how utter desperate these Anglozionimbeciles are…… I wonder how much NATO-Allies will pop up next war…. Make sure that a lot of eyes are watching every step our leadersss make!!! Europeans pretty sick of them lying bastards. In the U.S. the situation is not much better. every action under a magnifying glass….. Anglozionazis on their own, game over and they know it!…… let’s see if Europe will take the chance of some more Catalunyas…….or put their money where their mouth is & stay friends with the rest of the world……and to my American brothers: It’s about time to drag these Mobsters to court & convict them for High Treason, seize their assets, and find some high trees…..
dream on….
I will….. but you probably know that dreams sometimes come true…..I prefer to call it the butterfly-effect
The U.S. has been at continuous war ever since the 9-11 inside job, and the bill so far is about $15 trillion. The U.S. can’t afford another war, and it has only 2 choices… going out with a bang or whimper.
Since 2001 US itself has shifted into a warfare economy – the huge boost in annual military spending comes from projected public funds – and essentially converts public tax money into private profit money – with cross-party politicians in lockstep with those booming corporate interests. That is the ongoing domestic economics – but there is also a periodic foreign bonanza to warfare economies – when a country like Iraq is ‘regime changed’ all the state’s infrastructure is up for grabs – it is a absolute and radical appropriation of an entire foreign state’s infrastructure, resources and assets.
With any luck, middle Eastern conflict with ABORTION banners will leave the US military too exhausted to fight ABORTION RIGHTS supporting North Korea.
US need urgently a “Glasnost”
Russia had Goulag’s
US jails and Justice are among the World worst !
Don’t be poor in America !
The deep state makes lots of money having wars. Imagine the Zumlatt whatever ship has a shell that costs US1.5 million per shot ! Boom , Boom , and Boom means US 4.5 million. Really what a shell has are a few pieces of electronics and gun powder .. and it cost US1.5 million per shot.
Stupid fools … just turning some cheap electronics with GPS cost 1.5 million.
Like most of your compadres commenting here you care little for accuracy. The figure quoted by Southfront is $800,000 per shell and the program was cancelled in 2016.
https://southfront.org/miracle-us-navy-destroyer-zumwalt-waits-vain-shells/
Other estimates for this cancelled program wee $400,000 to $700,000 per shell.
Still a ridiculous amount.
In 2018 the US Army cost
would be a ridiculous 1’000 US Billions !
Meanwhile half of the Americans are uneducated
wallowing in the Dung !
=======================
The Simulacra Democracy
by JOHN STEPPLING
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Photo by William Brawley | CC by 2.0
… a nation in which 87 percent of eighteen- to twenty-four year olds (according to a 2002 National Geographic Society/Roper Poll survey) cannot locate Iran or Iraq on a world map and 11 percent cannot locate the United States (!) is not merely “intellectually sluggish.” It would be more accurate to call it moronic, capable of being fooled into believing anything …”
— Morris Berman
I cannot remember U.S. culture ever being quite so compromised by ruling class control. Hollywood turns out one jingoistic and militaristic and racist film and TV show after another. Corporate news is completely controlled by the same forces that run Hollywood. It is the complete capitulation of the liberal class to the interests of the increasingly fascistic U.S. elite. And this didn’t start with Donald Trump. Certainly in its current incarnation it goes back at least to Bill Clinton, and really it goes back to the end of World War Two. The ideological trajectory was formed under the Dulles brothers and military industrial complex — representing U.S. business interests and exhibiting a demand for global hegemony. But once the Soviet Union collapsed, the project was accelerated and intensified.
Another starting point might well be the 1960 Bay of Pigs fiasco, or the 1961 CIA (and MI6) assassination of Patrice Lumumba. Or Kennedy’s 1962 speech at American University calling for the end of Pax Americana. We know what happened to Kennedy soon after that. Pick any of these incidents. But it was the fall of the U.S.S.R. that signaled to the governing class, the proprietor class, that the last real obstacle to global domination had been removed. In the interim, one finds the Iran/Contra affair, and the invasion of Iraq. The real and the symbolic meaning of the Soviet Union is forgotten today, I think. Its meaning for the developing world, especially.
The next conscious trial balloon was Clinton’s attack on the former Yugoslavia. A test run for expanding NATO. And it worked. The propaganda machine has never been as successful as it was when it demonized the Serbs and Milosevic. Then came 9/11. And the well honed PR machine spewed an endless barrage of hyper-patriotic rhetoric and disinformation. American exceptionalism was given full credibility. And remember Colin Powell and his cartoon visual teaching aids at the UN? Nobody was going to argue. Certainly not the white liberal class. And Hollywood upped its game in churning out military fantasies. And in just churning out fantasies. A genre that lent itself to obvious neo-colonial messages. By 2007, when Barack Obama announces he will run for President, the master narrative for America was firmly entrenched. The biggest hit from Hollywood in this period is Avatar (2009), a neo-colonial fable that fit seamlessly with Obama’s reconquest of Africa.
Dan Glazebrook recently wrote:
The year 2009, two years before Gaddafi’s murder, was a pivotal one for US-African relations. First, because China surpassed the US as the continent’s largest trading partner; and second, because Gaddafi was elected President of the African Union. The significance of both for the decline of US influence on the continent could not be clearer. Whilst Gaddafi was spearheading attempts to unite Africa politically, committing serious amounts of Libyan oil wealth to make this dream a reality, China was quietly smashing the West’s monopoly over export markets and investment finance. Africa no longer had to go cap-in-hand to the IMF for loans, agreeing to whatever self-defeating terms were on offer, but could turn to China – or indeed Libya – for investment. And if the US threatened to cut them off from their markets, China would happily buy up whatever was on offer. Western economic domination of Africa was under threat as never before.
The US response was to increase base building, upgrade AFRICOM, and then murder Gadaffi. Hollywood hits from this period include The Hurt Locker and The Dark Knight. Meanwhile domestically Obama was giving the OK for militarizing of police departments across the country. On another front….Danny Haiphong wrote…
What isn’t discussed often enough is how Obama has worked tirelessly to protect and fulfill the interests of the corporate healthcare system. In 2009, he collaborated with the monopoly health insurance industry and its pharmaceutical counterparts to repress the demand for single payer healthcare. The conditions at the time appeared ripe for a single payer system. Popular discontent with Republican Party rule was at its highest point. A relatively organized movement for single payer care was represented by organizations such as Healthcare Now. The Democratic Party possessed a majority in both the House and Senate.
Obama came to power as Wall Street went into meltdown, 2008. But instead of hope and change we got almost 5 trillion dollars moving to the top 1% of the financial elite. Poverty increased every year under Obama, as did inequality. Social Network came out in 2010 and Wolf of Wall Street in 2013. Both were big hits. The message from Hollywood never changed. And part of that message is that wealth is its own justification and a symbol of virtue. Hollywood, and U.S. liberals just naturally gravitate toward the rich.
Obama attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Yemen. And it is perhaps that last venture that will prove to be his most significant. Arming, training, and coordinating the Saudi aggression (and now that has escalated to boots on the ground) against the helpless Yemen has resulted in the largest humanitarian catastrophe in five decades.
The U.S. now has all but formally criminalized dissent, especially if that dissent is aimed at Israel.
None of this is to create exact corollaries between political action and studio product. But rather that the overriding message of Hollywood in both film and TV is to validate U.S. exceptionalism. And to hedge criticism with faint token protest. But its not just Hollywood, its theatre and fiction and all the rest of the arts. The erasure of the working class is the most pronounced truth in American culture today. There are no Clifford Odets (a high school drop out) anymore; they have been replaced by a steady stream of well groomed compliant MFA grads. Mostly from elite and expensive schools. Hemingway and James Baldwin were not college grads, nor was Tennessee Williams, the son of a traveling shoe salesman. Even more recent authors such as Thomas Pynchon were college drop outs (to join the Navy), but the point is that today mass culture is carefully controlled. Dreiser was a college drop out, and Twain was a typesetters apprentice. Others like Faulkner, went to University, but also worked. In Faulkner’s case as a postman. Same profession as Henry Miller and Charles Bukowski. Stephen Crane and Hemingway worked as journalists, when that was an honorable profession.
Etc.. https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/10/26/the-simulacra-democracy/
Actually it was pretty obvious before the First World War.
https://wolna-polska.pl/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/a159.jpg
Only problem when they created the region they actually had no real intention of creating Israel , that’s a myth that was created by the west. Even they knew back then it would cause instability and deemed it a risk not worth taking. They had hopes of Jews and Palestinians sharing the same state as was the original intent.
It’s just that America thinks itself a great great power and listen to no one least of all a Muslim nation as famous Nikki said ” we shall not be …. etc etc ”
Too insulting . So on the surface they say not withdrawing .. behind they are dug into the deepest bunkers.
US should de-escalate with fellow ABORTION RIGHTS supporting Turkey and only support SDF near the ISIS front further East or possibly against the ABORTION banning SAA later on, So If Turkey wants the US out of Manbij, then the US should leave, at least the Turkish front in the North, perhaps remaining only near the ABORTION banning SAA front in the South.
I would like to have now eyes and ears in Incirlik. The faces of US-Pilots seeing turkish warplanes heading towards positions where US-SOF are in place must be a fantastic sight.
i dont think so, though i would like to see it happening, the turks will hit the americans. They dont have the guts, or better stupid as they are, they are not that stupid?
Accidents happen when you arm proxies, Turkey will be able to deny giving direct orders…once.
Then again there’s no good reason for the US to clash with a major ally in the region to side with irregular proxy forces.
It would send a clear signal in either scenario that the US would drop it’s allies and commitment whenever it suit them.
something it does on regular bases hence the name they acquiring, very rapidly since zioangglos totally control them and rule them. They call it is not personal is business.
We call them whores who change their price according to the size. I am sure all the rules have their exceptions but to most of the world america is a colony that though they have stolen one of the richer continents of the world, killing all the inhabitants and then some, at least in the north side, have turn it into a cesspool of mixed people who hate each other and a base of drug addicts and murderers and try to export it all over the world. Not to mention that ruined everything that make her beautiful. And they owe the rest fo the world how much like 60-80 trillion $?
So yes this hybrids will sell any one at a split second and call it patriotic as all the genocides they committed since they colonized north america but also before that with base England. But hey if you are holywood educated, I am sure you disagree with me.
you think this is funny, you sick BASTARD????? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa06eb93ea734fa01bfca62994e15fbdafdca07521115b1e144a7f6979e70161.jpg
STFU muppet, you know he doesn’t mean it that way.
Thats what US pilots do every day Matt and have done for many decades.
Oh really Florry??? You think i didn’t know that?
I realise that you do but you seldom say it :)
You show lack of good taste and understanding Miguel’s post. :(
Will Erdogan call their bluff? Will the US follow through it’s bluff?
Erdogan is in full harmony with US plan for Syria. Erdogan needs $130 B to balance Turkey’s books. Trump controls the Saudis and all Gulf”s puppet wallets … we know who control the IMF and the World Bank. So when Trump ask Erdogan to jump he will reply: How high ? Erdogan will be used to drag the Nato in the war on Syria. I bet the Kurds have their role explained to them. in Kurkook-Iraq, the Iraqi Mobilisation Unit arrested a Kurdish leader and found 10 boxes each contained 144 Israeli flag. I bet that somewhere in Afrin similar cargo is hidden.
what would he do with 144 israeli flags?
Then you have Turkey and Russia. Doesn’t Erdogan respect and get on with President Putin a lot more than President Trump?
NATO Allies my axx ! If Turkey & US are going to face-off against each other in northern Syria it is best that they do so quickly. I sympathize with the Kurds in this and have no sympathy whatsoever for either the Turks or the US. Both should get the hell out of Syria.
The innocent Kurd civilians and their livelihoods will suffer, but not their separatists leadership or their perks as US-Israel puppets.
The Kurds are Zionist proxies. Why would any country want another Israel on their border.
As long as Turkey is a full NATO member, It has no right to object, (bilaterally), the active military action of other member state. So, all what Turkey can do is to submit its “request” to the Nato’s Supreme Military Council. The NSMC should reach a decision. If Turkey objects the NSMC the Nato Secretary refer the matter to an emergency Nato Summit and their decision is final.
Turkey had this experience twice. Once when Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 and again in 1981 in a Aegean Islands dispute with Greece. In Both cases the decision was to force Turkey to withdrew its Naval force form North Cyprus and the Aegean Islands.
I think the whole soap opera of Turkish invasion of Syria is a plan designed and executed by Turkey, US and their Kurdish puppets. The plan will drag Nato in the war against Syria which fits nicely with Trump’s policy. Europe, (UK and France), will find themselves obliged to get involved behind Nato banner. The Kurds, once again, are used to service the war machine of International Imperialism.
The US, failing to get the UN approval, wanted to use the Nato in a similar plan in the invasion of Iraq in 2003. All its components were there, including the Iraqi Kurds armed insurgency. But it couldn’t because France and President Chirac threaten that France will leave Nato.
Turkey’s invasion of Syria in effect is a Nato Invasion. This, however, remains an act of aggression.
The US invaded action Afghanistan in 2001, US has the sole responsibility, The Nato operation in Afghanistan started 2004, The US, the Turkish or the German armies In Afghanistan are under a single Nato Command. while the US invasion of Iraq is not a Nato operation. The UN regarded the US as the occupation power not Nato. pulling the British Army from Iraq was a UK decision, it took three weeks, While Tony Blair had to obtain NSMC approval to pull the British force from Afghanistan,(it took 14 months). Who is in charge of the operation is very important in case of any violation of Geneva convention. Roumania and the US are equally accountable for any war crime in Afghanistan, even that there is no single Romanian soldier in Afghanistan.
I agree that for Syria it is act of aggression but for USA is an insurance policy against incitement of war crimes of which the US is the biggest committer.
in 2009 US plane, piloted by a US pilot bombed a tribal wedding party in Kandahar in Afghanistan killing 42 guest and injuring 80. It was regarded as Nato war crime and Nato countries paid $15 m as a compensation.
At the end of the day neither nation has been invited to invade by the democratic sovereign Government of Syria. However, Turkey is defending her borders. Why are the US there?
https://journal-neo.org/2018/01/26/oliver-branch-turkey-s-bid-to-modify-the-syrian-end-game/
Thanks for the link and well worth reading. Must admit I am curious and interested to know what Putin had to say to Netanyahu, when he invited him to the Jewish Museum yesterday?
Someone in the Pentagon sent out the wrong coordinates for the US occupation of the Mexican border and the US military ended up in Syria. Its a simple mistake that anyone can make and Lessons will be Learned :)
Haha, no doubt the lessons learnt will send them to Iran. Again mistaking the Mexican border?
I just hope the US Military does not confuse Birmingham Alabama with Birmingham West Mids as there is also a diverse population there :)
Haha and nice one. I wonder if they will believe ‘Spaghetti Junction’ is a recipe from a John Kerry outlet.?
The Podesta’s also have a Pizza restaurant at Spaghetti Junction I understand. Adults and kids all like it there. Its where generations can meet and bond(age) together. :)
That sounds so cheesy?
With extras for a small extra cost or a voucher.
Yuk.
Woof woof.
Recently the U.S. coordinator for the fight against ISIS, Brett McGurk, brought an unwelcome visitor to Syria. Brett McGurk visited Ayn Issa with the Saudi minister Thamer al-Sabhan. The Iraqi government has requested the replacement of the Saudi ambassador to Bagdad after his cousin Abdel-Salaam Al-Subhan publicly gave his support to ISIS and recently died fighting with ISIS.
ISIS was born out of the Sunni resistance against the U.S, occupation of Iraq. Around 2010/11. The Obama administration saw ISIS develop but intentionally let it grow for its own political purposes. The U.S. military supported ISIS in its fight against the Syrian state.
The Saudi’s are now funding the rise of ISIS 2.0 in conjunction with the US coalition. The US government officially considers the Peshmerga (PKK) a terrorist group yet the Kurds in Syria and Iraq will be the core of ISIS 2.0.
It is beyond description just how disgusting and despicable the American people are.
Not all of us are despicable. However, many of us are. Only a reflection of the Anglo/Zionist indoctrination system. Few can escape its powerful brainwashing.
ISIS was created by General Patreus as part of the so called surge. They were basically death squads and mostly ex Saddam officers. They morphed into ISIS, and many of the officers were the same people Patreus picked and trained. They were successful in Iraq, because they knew exactly how the US military worked, after having been part of the US army.
Wasn’t it at first mostly imprisoned members of Saddam’s former Baath party? That could choose between a Life-Long-Stay in Gitmo or become a CIA-Asset…..Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was probably an Israeli Mossad agent by the name of Simon Elliot… probably one of the ISIS-Commanders that got picked up by a chopper not very long ago….
Below an old article but nevertheless interesting….
https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/isis-is-a-us-israeli-creation-top-ten-indications/5518627/amp
it’s very well possible that he got a facelift and is on the Bahamas with Bin Laden right now…..( just a wild guess of me….)
The US can only maintain and supply Manbij through Incirlik Air Force Base in Turkey. Turkey and the United States are illegally invading Syria. This would be the first time in history that two allies invading a country start attacking each other as the invaded country is laughing its arse off. Turkey knows that if the US and Turkey start a war with each other, Turkey would prevent the US from using Incirlik to supply its forces in Manbij. Does not the geniuses in the Pentagon know that they are playing with a weak hand. The Pentagon is too afraid to feel the wrath of Israel to back down. Welcome to real politique.
No. That would take intelligence.
US can supply Manbij from Iraq.
Via land or air, both routes not secure.
Until Iraq says otherwise it is secure
If the U.S. and Turkey went to war, do you really think the U.S. would lose Incirlik Air Base? Adana would fall before you could blink as the U.S. Navy presence in the Med would move to block the Aegean and hold the coast. If anything that war would open up more supply routes…
Now granted, a war is a bit far fetched. But let’s not play what if’s with silly assumptions. There is no argument that the U.S. Navy would dominate much of the hypothetical scenario you propose. And there furthermore is no arguing the strengths of Navys/Air Forces. The U.S. is a dominator in both categories. The U.S. sold Turkey it’s aging F16s while it was upgrading. And it stripped the avionics before the sell, leaving Turkey with older aircraft with inferior avionics.
It would be like putting a small college football team up against a pro. Sure they will probably get some good hits in (Turkey’s military power is ranked 8th in the world) but there is no doubt who would win.
The US, despite only having 19 years peace, since 4 July 1776, are not actually that good. Last century, they only won one battle and that took months, against a little Island called Grenada. Even the pig farmers of Vietnam saw the US Forces off, did they not?
In the last century? All the way back to 1918, you sure you want to make that claim?
Yep, on their own, what battles have they won, besides Grenada?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c968360561dac1458a65a0ceae4f857c9c3d99453d547fb46b6a7b7431432660.jpg
Happy to be proved wrong.
Battle of Belleau Wood – June 1918
Battle of Ambos Nogales – Aug 1918
Battle of Saint-Mihiel – Sept 1918
Battle of Ciudad Juárez – June 1919
Doolittle Raid – April 1942
Battle of the Coral Sea – May 1942
Battle of Midway – June 1942
Battle of the Eastern Solomons – Aug 1942
Naval Battle of Guadalcanal – Nov 1942
Battle of Tassafaronga – Nov 1942
Battle of Buna–Gona – Nov 1942
Battle of the Bismarck Sea – March 1943
Battle of the Komandorski Islands – March 1943
New Georgia Campaign – June-Oct 1943
Battle of Vella Gulf – Aug 1943
Aleutian Islands Campaign – June-Aug 1943
Battle of Empress Augusta Bay – Nov 1943
Battle of Makin – Nov 1943
Battle of Kwajalein – Jan-Feb 1944
Operation Hailstone – Feb 1944
Battle of Eniwetok – Feb 1944
Stopping here b/c a point was made… Now lets go through your list (we are going to ignore your “on their own” as nothing in modern day is done between 2 countries.
China (was actually 1945-1949) 1945-1946 the Nationalist supported by US won until Gen. George C. Marshall stopped Chiang Kai-shek in June of 1946, just short of Harbin. After this US pulled support and the nationalist lost…
Korea – There still appears to be a S. Korea that is doing several orders of magnitude better than N. Korea…
Guatemala- CIA op, not military, coup was successful. Sure it led to genocide by the US installed dictator, but the operation was a success from the tactical perspective lol
Indonesia – again CIA ops, not military. This went from 1945 (operation ICEBERG) through 1965. 1958 was the failed coup, but ’65 known as the “30 September Movement” was successful.
Cuba – CIA- failure
Guatemala – CIA- was 1960-1996 (yes you read that right, ongoing civil war for 36 years) No US troops. Not sure about “winner” in this one as it is a back and forth and at more than one time the US was funding both sides.
Congo – “Simba rebellion” – outcome? rebellion defeated (US only gave aid with five C-130 planes and arms to the counter-rebellion)
Peru – this should be 1963 – CIA
**note** I am finding lots about “bombing tour” and many conspiracy theory websites claiming these bombings, but so far no such bombings have actually happened. I am beginning to think your list may be bullshit. (this is my shocked face).
I did not realise that the US fought WWI all on their own? Stopped reading after that.
Maybe you should say *war and not battle then? But then with someone listing items from the CIA and trying to categorize it as America being in war, maybe I shouldn’t be surprised?
Just cannot get my head around a nation, that makes no declaration of war, to it’s people, yet expects them to pay the bills. 19 years peace in total, since 4 July 1776. Not something to be proud of.
You keep saying that but it’s patently false. Even your silly graphic is false. Shows the US “bombing” when it was a CIA proxy . Or when they loaned transport (read not bombers) to locations. That’s not war. Since the US is a constitutional republic and not a democracy, the representatives are the voices. It is a shame that they are all just mouth pieces for the war machine, but until the collapse it isn’t going to change just bc some anarchists bitxh about it on obscure news outlets.
You do realise do you that there is a difference between winning a battle and winning a war? “Anti-idiot” has not claimed the US fought WW1 all on their own. I guess the English education system isn’t what it used to be for comprehension standards to fall so low.
I guess you had not noticed that the question asked was:
‘On their own, what battles have they won, besides Grenada?’
You argue with legality, you argue with facts and failing that you throw your toys out of your pram and use personal insults. Thankfully I was taught manners, but, cannot hand that to the English Education System. It seriously went down hill, when the progressives took over things.
You do understand that battle aren’t wars do you? Please consult a dictionary if you are still in doubt.
Riddle me this, do people die in battles? Do people die in wars? Do people die in regime change coups?
A battle – a general encounter between armies, ships of war, or aircraft the battle of Normandy soldiers who fell in battle,
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/battle
Definition of war
a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations :
a period of such armed conflict :
state of war
b : the art or science of warfare obsolete :
weapons and equipment for war archaic :
soldiers armed and equipped for war
a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism
a re-cap for the slow learners:
Your question was “Yep, on their own, what battles have they won, besides Grenada?”
If you meant “what wars” you should have said so.
My comment and my choice of words. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5d9a6a88404b7ea5e620aff48967142d8949a7a514fac29a696540c5d9dd0baa.jpg
17 years peace in total, since 4 July 1776, yet, did anybody ask the average US tax payer if they wanted to finance war and live on food stamps or rebuild America, starting with the infrastructure?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c968360561dac1458a65a0ceae4f857c9c3d99453d547fb46b6a7b7431432660.jpg
“Last century, they only won one battle and that took months”
lol… did you mean “my silly comment and my wrong choice of words”????
That is your comment, your choice of words. Also. your opinion.
Really? Thanks for that clarification….
The Vietnamese people were just a secondary school football team by your comparison standard and look what happened there.
Nam is a huge embarrassment for sure, but more for the political than military. At every turn their hands were tied.
Considering the deathtoll, nam was especially crippling for the Vietnamese.
In war, no winners or losers, only survivors .
War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing.
Good God, y’all! :D
“…hands were tied”? Really? So what else could they have done… used nukes?
There were restrictions on some targets, particularly in areas of North Vietnam that were close to China and where U.S. leaders were concerned that American airstrikes might provoke a Chinese response.
Following is C&P
According to U.S News and World Report, June 30, 1975 citing the just released, formally top secret, “Rules of Engagement for the Vietnam War” (Congressional Record June 6, 1975, pp. S9897-S9904) our men had to fight under horrendous conditions not imposed from the enemy but from our own State Department. What follows are some of those rules. On-ground assaults in urban areas “known to shelter enemy forces generally had to be preceded by loud-speaker warnings and leaflet drops.” Our troops could return fire “only when the enemy was positively identified and in close contact. Sniper and mortar fire were not counted as ‘contact’ unless ‘such fire interferes with the scheme of maneuver or is inflicting casualties or damage to equipment.’ ” Only flat-trajectory weapons (rifles, machine guns, grenades and recoilless rifles) could be used in civilian-populated areas, which largely exposed our men, and “then only if there was a specific, identifiable target.” Obviously on the ground, U. S superiority in firepower was deliberately not exploited.
Nor was it in the air. Pilots were not allowed to fire where they thought the enemy was hidden- even when fired upon- until they were “sure the strike would be positively oriented against the source.” And in many areas there was the nightmare of getting approval at higher levels even if you spotted the enemy or you were taking ground fire. The chain of command often went through the “province chief, district chief, sector commander and a battalion or higher command” which by the time this was completed, the enemy had disappeared. Enemy airfields were off limits if a “plane with a third nation’s markings was present.” Dams, locks, dikes and targets within 11 1/2 miles of the enemy’s major cities were “banned without prior approval of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.”
Hands were tied b/c the US had abandoned “total war” theory and had adopted “just war” theory… Pick up some history books ;)
Turkish army could simply move a couple of battalions into the Inkirlik airbase to shut down US ops there (it is a shared airbase). And the 6th fleet only has a limited Marine force for any rapid response. As you said, this scenario is never going to happen.
18th can have forces there in less than 36 hrs… Forces from Germany… US has gotten really good at getting troops places really quick.
Get to where, the beachhead?
Sounds worse than the invasion of Gallipoli.
And why would NATO support this :D
If Turkey attacked US forces, whom do you think NATO would side with exactly? Hell, do you really think NATO would ever side against the US? Really? That shows a glaring lack of firsthand knowledge… As for the where, do you really think Adana wouldn’t be held? Turkey would fall back away from the coast, they know that if they didn’t their troops would be annihilated by navy… I guess you could fall back on “beachhead” if you mean the first few 100 miles of the Med coast
I never spoke of Turkey attacking US, you only talk about US ops against Turkey.
The dissolution of NATO would be a great thing for the ME.
Have you war gamed this: The US 6th fleet advancing on Adana against 3 Turkish army corps. LOL
A single Burke class destroyer has 90 tomahawks on it… Range of about 1500 mi. How many of those do we have in range? You forget the 5th is in the Persian and the AFF is within 5 days of the Med.
That is ignoring the plethora of air power the US has sitting in Europe.
Burke class has 90 cells, mostly ant air.
And where is the ground force that you speak of?
That is flight I, flight II and IIA are 96 cells ea. The IIa is where the SAMs are primarily located…
What modern war was territory held? It has been about suppression and destruction of military infrastructure for about ~60 yrs now. That’s why things like Vietnam failed.
Navy would push back from coast, air superiority would ensure no flys and bombing runs, infrastructure would crumble, US economy would be buoyed since it is basically one big war machine. World pressure would push US to stop and then US would go bankrupt trying to rebuild Turkey after it spent billions leveling it.
The US could never hold Turkey b/c the people of Turkey are not like the rest of the ME, they still feel the sting of the OE losing so handily, they are tenacious and resourceful.
But to think they would win militarily is a fairy tale.
The problem would how would it get permission to use those bases since countries and their governments are neutral in these types of situations. Why don’t you grow up and realize you just spout unrealistic nonsense
Permission to use the US bases in Europe? No such request would need to be made as those were bilateral agreements in place already. If they wanted to increase number of bases, or utilize a base not covered under agreement then yes.
They are retricted on movement and they only hold leases and each individual state within the State can halt the movement. Agreement excludes it’s use for launching air attacks without permission on an NATO ally that is everywhere. Remember at any time the host country can terminate the bases leases if any violation occurs or even if they feel like it.
The launching on NATO is only true for certain bases, like Ramstein which has a NATO SoFA. For many of the bases the SoFA was established outside of NATO and have terms of 99 yrs without clauses for restrictions. These were grandfathered in and accepted by EU
Like Turkey allowed US forces to launch attacks on Saddam? Or like France allowed US strikes on Libya to overfly French territory? :D
The only time France prohibited was 1986, which for those at home, may remember France withdrew from NATO from 1966-2009… In fact France also requested all US soldiers leave French soil. De Gaulle was strangely quiet when asked if it included all the soldiers buried in French cemeteries.
“The only time France prohibited was 1986”, or put another way. The only time France prohibited was the only time US ever asked to use their airspace for a combat mission. Then there was Italy freeing the Achille Lauro terrorists in 1985. So yeah, I still say the Euros will look for an “out” if the US-Ottoman Cold War becomes a shooting war.
Remember when Obama threatened to attack SAA? Ships had to be staged over several days. Putin took the time to arrange the chemical weapons agreement.
NATO doesn’t get involved in squabbles between each other , so sounds like the US is on it’s own. How do you propose the US to further use any bases, as access would likely be cut off as most would take a neutral position.
If UK joined in, US could use bases on Cyprus.
NATO would say both countries are members, therefore they will not participate. Just like 1974 Ottoman invasion of Greek Cyprus.
Do you think there could be a difference? Your comparison was on 2 countries who had just joined NATO and barely contribute money or troops, to an original signatory country that supplies the most (read #1 contributor) of both money and troops?
Other NATO countries will be seeking an “out”, if such a scenario develops. The “out” I described would fit the bill. Overall, I’d guess the chances of open US-Ottoman war are between 1% and 3%. Highly unlikely, but when armies are in the field anything is possible. Even if a local skirmish occurred near Manbij the chance of escalation would be minimal. On the other hand, Trump and Erdogan are both bombastic and headstrong.
I don’t think that other countries would be seeking an out. I personally think that the $300 million pulled from the U.N. recently would preclude it. NATO countries realize that NATO is better than no NATO, and that Trump is big enough of an idiot to cut off his nose to spite his face (or dismantle NATOs funding).
Erdogan has been a thorn in many NATO countries side, but does offer a jumping point for much of the ME or even Russian intervention. I think when chips are down they would value the US over Turkey though.
As for chances, I put it all sub 1%. Today even Turkey has announced it will not move on Manbij next (via http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-01/31/c_136939955.htm)
If the link doesn’t post, it is from Chinese news, so no US propaganda, titled “Turkey not expected to target Syria’s Manbij following U.S. warnings” posted 4 hrs ago.
The link took me to Xinhua’s main page. I will see if I can find the story about Manbij.
I can see the lunatic Erdogan attacking, with every action he is getting more and more confident as he sees no reaction….but in truth i think the war has already started as this senario is a threat to israel, it will be in the form or economic and promoting internal pressures to topple the country, maybe even proxy wars…….Erdogans rhetoric and dreams of power, expansion and anti israel does not escape attention
He would have to attack US forces at Incirlik simultaneously. Like /dolf he has an incredible ability to believe his own propaganda, so you may be right. The same susceptibility to drink Kool Aid is obvious in the hordes of Erdognistas that infest these comment boards! :D
Oooh… it does seem like Turkey wants to return Constantinople to the Greeks and balkanize their country, considering recent events….
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e3f0091fa093e59e355ead6c0a092f43c1ea1809a6d375c93dd9be18f9504fa0.gif nt
Even if that is true, there is no single country out there that would want to put itself in such disposition by taking Turkey head on, some countries have to watch out for provocations.
lol what a show, pretentious fools, so the fucks have decided to replace the semi loyal forces by loyal nato turks in kurdish areas, obviously they want full control of those fields instead having a middleman wonder if kurds will defect to Syrian side in time.
Valid point.
I think it is their only option.
Wars are about money, and the US is on the verge of bankruptcy, the dollar is falling, causing treasury bond interest rates to rise to halt the fall.
They are currently paying about $50 billion a month in interest, and interest rates are rising, as is the debt. Trump added an extra trillion in his first year.
We have all seen this before, the currency declines, and interest rates increase.
The US is going the way of Greece, and will no longer be able to afford to terrorize the world.
“How did you go bankrupt?”
“Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”(Ernest Hemingway)
Long overdue announcement.
The US is just playing games with back and forth statements.
The Kurds are being used, but it’s a two way street. The coalition is looking for any excuse to stay in Syria, without a doubt.
Its prison rules. If you want to be top dog find the current top dog and take him out. The US understands if it lets turkey push it out then theyve been pushed out of top dog and everyone will take a bite of them. They can dump the kurds whenever they like but not because some wanna be ottoman sultan ordered them to.
I dont think they had anything in afrin so that group is free game.
Although im betting turkey is seen as too big and organized so maybe America is willing to have the SDF shoot off some good weapons at them grind them down a bit. Seems dangerous and reckless to me though. Occupying syria directly surrounded powerful regional powers seems like a big provocation and juicy target already.
Not going to withdraw yet not going to support the Kurd’s either? Yeah that going to end about as well as a drunken fool standing on the railroad tracks late at night demanding that bright light coming his way to stop in the name of the great me.
US has outsmarted the Turks by waving with a red blanket(Kurds) in front of their face, now they are doing the dirty job for them.
Fools
The mighty US Imperial Military reduced to mere human shields for mercenaries and fanatics? How pathetic. When are the US people going to wake up and demand their government repudiate the Zionist Entity, end all payments, and cease being a clumsy tool in the hands of deranged Zionist parasites? Or are there too many people who are so heavily indoctrinated that they think that “Israel” is the innocent lamb of peace, just trying to help those dumb Muslims be “democratic”? If you look at a map of the world and see the areas of conflict involving the USA, you see the greasy fingerprints of Zionists or their collaborators all over them. Nice to see that these chickenhawk generals now have to make such statements as the above, instead of grand pronouncements about “victory” and “warfighting capability”! :)