SOURCE: facebook.com/Encyclopedia.of.Syrian.military/
More details have appeared about the Syrian Air Defense Forces’ Pantsir-S short to medium range air defense system, which was destroyed by Israel during the May 10 encounter.
The picture from the site where the air defense system was destroyed allowed to get a more precise picture of the May 10 incident. It appears that the Pantsir-S was not in a combat position, including radar, after it had fired all of its missiles at some targets. The position of hydrostructs allows to suggest that the system was preparing to move for reloading.
It should be noted that initially multiple pro-opposition sources used the Israeli video of the Pantsir-S destruction to mock the Syrian Air Defense Forces as unprofessional. Now, when more details have appeared, such statements look much more questionable.
I’m no expert about ADS but I think that there should be at least two batteries of Pantsir S-1 so when the first one moves for reloading the second can keep yet the area safe. Then it is clearly seen in the video that the SAA staff was engaged in matters unrelated to their duty, they were not going to move away immediately…
your assessment is 100% correct.
Unless you need all your missiles to take out a swarm.
Well???? The only way to attack and defeat it is by swarm, so that area should be the first consideration. As Buddy said, deployment should be either in pairs or close proximity so they can protect each other during vulnerable interjections and allow each other to have down times.
Not pairs but 3s. 2 protect and 1 reloads. This gives maximum defense during saturation attacks. I don’t know if they had that many available though.
You also have fee thousand shells for your guns.
And when you run low on both shells and missiles – start moving to protected reloading hideout before you totally cut out
The autocanons has only 700 rounds- with min burst of 83 rounds, the maximum target it can engage is 8.
Thanks for specific figures.
Can the crew autonomously recharge the cannon and/or missiles or is departure to reloading station with reloading cars the only option?
I haven’t worked on this particular type of system, but it 700 rounds of 30mm weights around 600-700 kg without the feeding chain. I imagine they would need a truck and some equipment to load it.
Shilka or Tunguska could be used to protect Pantsir during the reload.
They did not tried to reload, to move away, to even hide themselves. They just watched the show in the skies.
And why we think Pantsir was out of ammo? Out of missiles maybe, but it also has guns, those very guns that down the drones.
Not necessarily, they are not really used that way even by Russian Military.
It makes sense, but Syria has a limited number of these.
50
you right and it was but the second pantsir failed to notice the stealth suicide drone.
Yes, that’s how it’s supposed to work, but if the crew is incompetent, there is no “safekeeping” no matter how many batteries you have. The Pantsir is still perfectly capable of engaging slow targets like the Harop using its cannons, but the crew was gathered outside of the vehicle, probably picking their noses and wondering what’s for dinner. Then one guy, probably the most brilliant of the crew, got the genius idea to run towards the vehicle when it was less than ten seconds away from being hit.
They were watching free show in night skies.
They did not even hidr their stupid bodies, standing few metres from the high value target
Better option will be to station the Pantsir S-1 under a heavily fortified concrete with holes to allow only the missile tubes poking out.
This will force the enemy to use a much more powerful bunker busting missile to attack the Pantsir S-1 which cannot be done with small drones thereby muh more exposing the enemy with better chance of the bunker busting missile being shot down.
Also I read that Russia is now modifying the Pantsir S-1 system to be much more sucessful at attacking drones.
Heavily fortified position would equally hamper attacker and Pantsir itself.
Every hole Pantsir can use to fire its guns or launch its missiles can be used by attacker too.
Additionally in such a hideout Pantsir would be blindened, with its radar disabled by those fortified walls.
So, the Pantsir in hideout is like having no Pantsir.
But they HAD to move the machine when they started running low on ammo. All soviet AD close range units starting with Tunguska are designed to fire on the move! You have 10% ahells left? One missile of 12? Report it and move into hideout for reloading! Shoot your last shells when you already half way there!
second Pantsir S-1 system that damaged in Syria this year.
Well it’s good to know the system was working as advertised, only dying due to having no ammo left. I’m more surprised by the lack of damage done to it, only the actual truck was destroyed but the missile system seems intact; repairable even.
It’s burned off so they’d need to fix them extensively.
I think it was hit by a kamakazi drone, it was travelling way too slow to be a missile.
At this stage, even that does no seem so outlandish a claim.
Maybe it was a small drone with very limited amount of explosive.
Here there is a speculation about a Delilah missile being used:
https://theaviationist.com/2018/05/10/the-israeli-air-force-has-just-released-a-video-of-a-pantsir-s1-air-defense-system-being-struck-in-last-night-attack-in-syria/
These Delilah drones can fly very slow (“loitering around”), though I don’t know, how much explosive such a Delilah would carry, the pictures of the destroyed Panzir really look like a very small warhead was used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delilah_%28missile%29
says that the Delilah could carry 30kg of explosive, which should leave way more destruction, but maybe the amount of explosive was reduced in favour of longer reach and having more time for loitering around.
Americans and Israelis both are migrants and both are thieves because they both are living on stolen lands and this is their history. Where they are now they should not suppose to be their because they have killed millions of native people of those lands and then they have occupied those lands. They both are thieves of properties and of wealth. They are corrupt, fraudsters, evils and brutal anti humans.
Acording to your logic, alle islamic countries are thieves, because they conquered and stole other peoples land.
You could say that about all religious cults and all other cults as well for that matter.
What a false God and fictional books about them have to do with property rights is the reason for most conflicts throughout history.
Well it’s medieval fake news and propaganda.
All Muslims are living on their own lands they are not migrated from UK or US. LOL. Second Islam is the fastest growing religion in the whole world. Only in UK thousands are becoming Muslims each year.
Second Muslims never steel lands from non Muslims rather the native people themselves become Muslims.
Not true, Muhammed came from Mekka, all the rest was conquered by the sword, inclusiv Medina. All stolen from others, and by giving the ones not killed or enslaved, less right and publicy humiliated them, countries slowly turned muslim. Islam is a war ideologi that only can expand by warware.
What happened in America or Australia ? Hmm ? If you want to feel having some sorts of high moral ground look some fact’s first.
why did George Wasingthon read the Quran? Because he didnt understand why the muslim pirates where pillagin and taking whole ships as slaves. So the US navy was formed, to repel muslim pirates.
Oh my god that was a sound logic there. Ggwp i lost my hats off to you.
In UK the population is converting to Islam so fast, so this is by the force of gunpoint? Who force them to come and convert to Islam. I myself have meet with many British new converted Muslims.
Warfare is not only with guns, many are converting by deciet, told lies and half truth of islam, never told they can not leave islam again. Criminals in prison are converting, because under sharia they can justifie their criminel acts that they love.
I have seen many Christians studying Islamic books and also meet with Islamic scholars and then convert.
Disinformation.
One question; when Muhammad moved from Medina to Mecca, did he move with an army, or did the people of Mecca convert by choice ?
Prophets are nonaggressive. They have only defended their nations. They were not attackers or aggressors because they have worked for God. The Prophet Muhammad only sent letters to kings in Europe, Africa and Asia that I invite you to Islam and on his invitation letters many kings and their nations convert to Islam.
You did not answer my question, maybe you have not read the Koran.
Did Muhammad conquer Mecca with an army, or did he “send a letter” and the people of Mecca welcomed him as the Prophet of God ?
The Mecca Quraysh have breached the agreement with Muslims and attack on Muslim villagers. They requested to them that please don’t kill us but they have killed most of them and some few save themselves and went to the Prophet Muhammad that the Mecca Quraysh have breached the agreement and killed all our poor viligers so on this the Prophet Muhammed prepared a force of some ten thousands and went to attack on these agreement violators but they failed to come and fight with Prophet Muhammed and there many atheist accepted Islam.
Thank you, for whatever given reason, Muhammad took Mecca by force of arms. He then went on “campaigns” and before his death conquered the Arabian Peninsula, After his death Islam split into Shia and Sunni…
The Sunni conquered all of north Africa up to and including Spain in the west and eastward up to Afghanistan in less than 250 years. They then went on and conquered all the way to Burma which they could not take, or Siam because of their war elephants, so they went on by sea and took Malaysia and what is now Indonesia. All in less than 700 years after Muhammad’s death.
However the Shia, being non-jihadist only spread into what we today call the “Shia Cressent”. Don’t believe me, read some history books.
Islam religion did not spread by swords but by love. That is the reason that Islam religion is spreading very fast in the whole world.
Conservative Sunni Islam is in general a war ideology, however Shia and Sufi Islam are not expansionist.
The 21st century Israelis are fake, land’s thieves, child killers, fraudsters, corrupt, racists, and aggressors. Keep yourself away from them.
eliminate them? oh so one holocaust wasn’t enough for you? YOU SICK BASTARD!
Looking at that video i know the soldiers was slacking…
You “Know”; well, congratulations for settling the absolute facts for all of us…………..
http://www.palestineportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Maps_1897-Present.jpg
Notice in the left map there is no Israel. Israeli migrants scaring from this map very much. Israeli migrant state is like ISIS state created by UK, US, France and Saudi regimes. They all are one gang.
After full liberation of Syria all Muslim nations Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Russia, China and Pakistan will come together to liberate Palestine from illegal European migrants Israel by using their own weapons and army units. They will not stay calm until to erect the Palestinian flag on Tel Aviv.
Rob, Israel needs more land for its increasing populations and for security purposes to address the all too obvious lack of strategic depth. The moral aspect of their enterprise might be debatable but the reality on the ground is all to completing to argue against it. Israel preaches water ( equality, peace, harmony) but drink premium wine by conducting a foreign policy that is taken from Darwin books: the stronger shall survive, the weaker shall perish;
In order for Israel to achieve this goal, they decided to take land form the weakest and the least co-operative of its neighbors ( Syria in this case). The plan was all along to occupy a 20-25km buffer zone ( beyond the Golan Heights) from Syria, have it settled initially with jihadists of the worst order, and then under the pretext of bringing order and fighting terrorism- at some point in the near future- outright occupy the area and give it the same status as the West Bank.
To this point, the plan works fine for Israel. Syria alone does not have the military wherewithal to take on Israel and defend its land, and Iran can not seriously engage Israel at its border given the extremely long logistical supply running through open desert ; Israel will never allow a serious build up of Iranian ( Shiite) forces next to its eastern border.
Russia Chas- at this point largely achieved- two of its three goals in Syria; hence, it is little inclination to engage in open hostility with Israel for the 22-25km of land bordering the Golan Height.;
Whoever believes Russia is interested in restoring the full editorial integrity of Syrian territory – at a risk of open arms confrontation with US/Israel and the other boot likers in the region- dreams in technicolor and is driven by emotions rather than by rational and logic. Putin is anything but a dreamer. He know what works and what does not work under the current circumstances.
Don’t be dispare so much just wait two weeks until the internal all pockets liberated then operation at the North East and South will begin together Hama/Idlib/Alepo/Raqqa/Deir Ezzor/Hassaka with
Daraa/Golan Hights, Al-Tanf.
Syrians and their allies operation will be active until whole Syria liberated from American and Israeli child killers and land thieves.
those Jews are stupid or something…they choose the worst country in the world to build their country in….tiny with deset and heat between war-zones surrounte by ppl that want to kill them all…they should have choose a country in Europe or asia with a better climate and not just desert.but then again it is “holy” lands lol…stupidity!!
The best location for a kike Jew rodent country is in the middle of the United States among the low IQ Evangelitard Christians whom the Zionists have carefully raised and trained like cattle from a young age to worship them.
Hitler kindly offered them Madagascar :)
The better place to create a jewish state is Antarctica.
So the Syrians leave their gear just laying about so it can be bombed.
So slack, you would think after years of war they would have become professional.
If the crew is still alive, the person in charge of the Pantsir and his commanding officer should be shot.
BS-!! Slack-!!! you lackes get it right-!! The Great People Of Syria Got Caught with there Pants down, No country in history has come under attack From WMDs Used by [NEANDERTHAL] WARRING People [UK, USG, France, & the rest of the GODLESS Satan Worshippers] like Libya, Iraq, Iran, & Now Great Syria……….. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/621dd4da9e4c1a34abe253bf45c98b149e386b6635e07289b003bdd7fcf444a3.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a742bf23ce2fe64ccc4df655d3b578dbe3d7b930b294e57ad06558272a9f0732.jpg
IRAN IS UP AND RUNNING
Maybe demoted… shot is a bit harsh and extreme.. i wouldn’t value military equipment higher than human life… regards,
Once Palestine is free the world will be on it’s way to restore Love & Beauty Real Freedom
There is neither love, beauty or freedom in islam, only force, punishment and enslavement.
Look You Talmudic Cucks are on your way out FACTS-!!!!
Was Muhammed a good person? worthy as the world rolemodel?
Look this is a Hard Core Site I have no time for Talmudic Bssssssssssssssssss
Yes you are really hardcore
Yes Talmudism I will take by the neck into a Real Court Of Law & Let People Who Know Of Talmudism Hang You… All Love From NYC-USA KISS of Sicilian Death jew who supports Talmudism
Or So-Called Muslim Or So-Called Western Christian Who Supports HOMO’s
lol Ms. Talmuda
Didn’t he marry a 9 year old, and also his adopted son’s wife? Wasn’t he a mass murderer of men women and children?
No jew word or Christian word Or Sunni & Shia Word ((((Talmudic)))) Sellouts TALMUDISM-!!!!! WILL DIE ALL CRAP WHO ARE TRAITORS OF THE BOOK FALL UNDER THIS SATAN WORDLY WRITTEN Bsssssssssssssssss https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0b4aef6478e5f7c06e20e565b17af4d0a0cb1aeec898cf36e95284f89b4888ef.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/05b72c43e54fad9b4d43445dc60544b8d3c3c2d9bbaed613a8bd6e59e3de370c.jpg
You fool, read, wake the fuck up scumbag
Yes you sound really loving, you want me to be like you? hatefull and angry?
Look Mossad Get the Fuck off Sites of Truth Hard Core As It Is Spread talmudism In ISISraHELL
You the fountain of truth.
ElFor your info Hamas once was helping the rebels against Assad
All TalMudic Cucks Die A Painful Death Did Not You Lie About Jesus-(A) Dying A Painful Death, Yes, But No, You Talmudic Cucks Never Put Your Nasty Hands On The Son Of Mary-(A)
The clumsy Iranian firing of the Grad missiles at Israel caused the death of the Syrian soldiers.
It is clear that the Syrian army, in its present state, can not deal with a state army, like the Israeli, Turkish or American army. Therefore, the Syrians must end the war and begin rebuilding Syria.
It was the Syrians who returned fire into the Golan not the Iranians – How can the SAA end the war until all militants have been removed? There will be no rebuilding until a political settlement is in place. What of the Turks & the illegal US bases. There is a lot to be resolved.
The weird is who pantsir has 2 auto cannons.
That cannons supposedly to provide a proper short range defense if turned ON.
Yeah, I think the truth is in the middle once more.
Syrian army caught off guard… once more.
Or don’t know how use it properly.
Maybe they shot 12 missiles at 2 targets.
Then shoot your cannon.
And mere common sense cries: start moving when you are low on ammo, not when you are out of it.
Why they were not going to fotified depot ajd hideout when they had one last missile left?
I think there were not awaiting any further missiles, or else some technical issue… or a coffee break. It is really somewhat imbecilic to not use the AA as defense when reloading, unless it is not a thing that it can do.
maybe they used all of thier ammunition trying to take down other missiles
That certainly is a possibility, Mr.Quoc.
Then what do you do there in the firong position? Waiting for the parcel with Darwin Award? You got one!
They should had starting moving before their ammo was totally exhausted, but they did not started even after that
They’re not in operations so the drone is a slip they never know.
Then why that lone guy was running from the machine to the crew in the video beginning?
Pantsir is part of intergrated network.
Even if its own radar is off it sees the skies through all other radars in the area
Iran has several types of Area denial Jamming systems.
With an attack event occuring. ..there’s time to turn this on which gives area coverage for point defence.
You do this knowing Israhell has lurking loiter munis out there. ..munis which are multi mode and Satellite .
Jammers can indeed mess with these systems to make the accuracy circle low %
Smoke dischargers also assist to reduce attack munitions optical …
A Shilka with its radar could be a working stopgap for Pantsir crews
How many Pantsir or BUK M2E are on station at an Airbase is ???
Syria’s old doctrine was Shikla in 4 points on airbase perimeters
Numerous Syrian Shilka had their Radars removed and used as breaking/seige attack with Syria’s various military groups.
So you imply Syrians forgot they moved Shilkas away (that is already rich assumption) and then Pantsir crew did not want to move to safety, waiting for non-existing Shilkas (very old machines anyway) to protect them from every imaginable threat of 2018.
I’m implying that Putin screws Assad and may also extort Iran to not send to Syria it’s quality Air defence systems.
There are only so many SAA Pantsir S1 or BUK M2E available vs the number of bases deployed …and fact of attrition loss over past 2 years as IAF have attacked these assets repeatedly.
Iran has Area denial Jamming systems. …several types .
I’m hoping they are deploying these in Syria…testing/R&D that…with Radars.
You seem to want the toxic public reaction by your Bitchy comment.
So consider what’s reality for Syria’s Airdefence with Putin helping Netanyahu to succeed.
Iran is Syria’s best chance for success….now that it’s obvious Putin is Compromised.
By the way. ..Shikla nearby….or even lite fucking burning barrels/smoke pots,or
Smoke Discharges…. might have messed up the loiter munis optical.
SAA have to improve their tactical vs Israhell and it’s determination.
So, if Syrian personnel destroy best AD units Russia could provide to them it means “Putin screws Assad”. Okay, then let some other world leaders, better than Putin, come and unsrew him.
Iran was extorted to keep their AD units from Assad. LOL. Thete also were America, France, Turkey and China who wanted to give Asad their AD units but Putin extorted them all.
Ok, you may enjoy you rusophobic rants all you want.
I will drop by again if you stop evading and answer did Syrians know that they moved Shilka units away or they did not.
Ciao.
The drone flying low and it’s actually it’s job to illuminates the drone so in the network they may see them until it can’t. Well the simplest explanation would be the pantsir is not on operations and that make a question of how they’re located by the drone. For a highly mobile units there should be a protocol for it’s operations.
Israelo send the drone to the place where Pantsir was firing from. The drone was expecting to look around and track the fleeing Pantsir. However the Pantsir was not fleeing. It was just standing there where it was marked in the map, hoping night hides it from XXI century weaponry…
SAA uses many deceivers. This is just one of many. Also as noted below, laser guided bomb or missile don’t fly that slow. This unit has been either abandoned on purpose or was not operational, we will never know exactly.
Either way this is all IDF propaganda, SAA Air Defences are still very much operational given the fact that Israel AF didn’t dare to enter Syrian airspace since F16 downing
More and more Pantsir S1 units entering via the Bosporous. Putin plays a double game here, on one hand turns a blind eye to IDF raids, on the other he conduits more and more military assets to Assad.
Huge interests at stake here fellas, billions of dollars of Russian gas must get through Syria in the future.
It was an unprofessional movement by SAA to let an expensive equipment in an open field in a middle of an exchange of fire. In the video you can clearly see the soldiers talking, far away from the Pantsir, and then a soldier run towards it. Too late. And it wasn´t a laser guided bomb, but a drone that was used.
it was a missile guide by GPS….Israel spy planes with termal cameras spotted them and gave the GPS coordinates to Air force…it is similar when SAA troops joined in open field when terrorist have ATGM….this is a clearly unprofessional movements!
I think that television guidance is alternative to GPS guidance. So, we have either a Popeye type missile or drone, most likely it was drone because of low speed and damage.
its was a suicide drone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Harop
With respect to you person- ally,Kraaiiii,I don’t know U @all,wikipedia is a 95% jew-infested lie-machine oriented to the ‘Hole-ee-kawst-;Vi-R-soVeeZoPoisekutedNarrativee,so U may be right only by your indivudual mil-tek knowledge.Film made it look like an oy-so-brave-judd-pilot,due2-last-sec.adjusts, unnec. if target stationary, as it certainly appeared to be.
Basic,
Blind, pointless hatred brings disrespect on you.
no. Russians block GPS systems
If Iran/Syria had indeed attacked Israel in Golan, then they would have seen this coming, and would be prepared, instead of making breaks. If your enemy strikes you without reason then you don’t know the “when” and the “where”.
Excellent point; they were doing the best they could; justy’s contempt-laden derogatory, sarcastic”genius”re-mark shows a typical Zionist-or dim-witted &/or brain-washed Yank grunt’s contempt for courage,(wether demi-suicidal or not), an attribute alien to der juden infant- murderers, whose wretchedly poor, ants-in-pants ground troops have always, & still do, have the World’s Highest Death-by Friendly(50%!)Fire rate(source(s), among Many: Jane’ s Ships, Norwegian mil.obsv.,etc.,ad infinitum).
Did you forget to take your meds again?
Did you forget to state any facts again, or simply make them up on-the-fly, &as usual, resulting in the same old boring, asinine Judd
See above.
I’ll take that as a yes.
You may take any way you like, judd.
“would be prepared, instead of making breaks”
>You speak as if the Pantsir crew didn’t know about an active air attack. The post-action damage picture of the Pantsir shows that it’s missiles were expended. They were already part of the battle.
May his soul RIP..
when missile or suicide drone impact on Air defense system,it parked fully open ground.
It’s a SAM system at Mezzeh Airbase – you need a clear field of view for the radar – it can’t operate from a cave. It looks like it was at it’s normal firing position at the northeast end of the runway – exactly where it belongs to defend the airbase, the Presidential Palace and the Damascus area during an air attack.
When your expensive equipment runs out of ammo in the middle of an exchange of fire, you have to reload it. It takes a few minutes to pull the struts and stow the radar and guns before you move it. The ammo bunker and reloading truck are somewhere else at the airport. Good military practice is never to bring the ammo, reloader and launcher together unless you’re actually reloading. And even then only one Pantsir would be allowed near the reloading area at a time. Maybe a second one at Mezzeh was being reloaded. Honestly, does anyone really think the Pantsir crew was just relaxing and having a smoke in the middle of these airstrikes? They are gathered away from the truck rather than inside it exactly because they know it’s a high-value target and Israel is trying to destroy them.
The base is only 4 km from the Presidential Palace and is in some of the most heavily defended airspace on earth. It was (or should have been) covered by nearly every other Pantsir or SAM in the Damascus area. Some other system probably shot at the Israeli missile as it approached, but missed. It’s not likely it flew unchallenged all the way across Syria to the airbase. But it did come after a saturation attack – that wasn’t by accident. Half the Israeli missiles made it through to hit something.
This Pantsir crew was talking with the reloading crew and ready to move the truck. The Israelis had a Delilah ready to be there when the Pantsir was shut down. That’s exactly how you would take out Pantsirs after a saturation attack. You can’t attack it if the radar and machine guns are still working. The attack video is intentionally slowed at the end, but the targeting overlay is the same seen in other Delilah air-launched cruise missile attacks (Iranian drone trailer). Israel just fed the ‘suicide drone’ BS to the media – a slow, large propeller-driven Harot wouldn’t have made it anywhere near Mezzeh – they’re easy to shoot down.
Israel isn’t adverse to burning through a half-dozen expensive Delilahs if one of them might make it through to actually take out a SAM. They can launch these from the Lebanese coast or northern Israel – plenty of range to reach Damascus.
IAF did use IAI Harop drone
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-air-defense-system-destroyed-by-israel-was-allegedly-unarmed/
This drone can seek autonomously and strike active Air Defense Systems with his anti-radar homing system or by using television guidance when radars are presently shut down (in this case).
The article specifically says that “…The image suggests that…”. In other words, they’re inferring something from the video. I’m not sure exactly what. Here’s a video from Israeli Military Industries which makes the Delilah. The terminal optical video here shows the aiming overlay: same crosshair and floating black square drift dot. A Harop is usually shown diving almost vertical on the target, not like the terminal approach shown against the Pantsir.
https://youtu.be/SNYUXgl7SsM
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/66d85d7ba7e9ab213ded8463bdb5b1dd29f98a9a06da5af9b9146aedf69b139b.gif
Here is the video that shot the Pantsir-S-1 It’s a Screen Guided Missile Shot from F-15 or F-16s, the pilot deploys the missile and guides the missile to the target, they can be also launched ground to ground but that’s in other circumstances, the Israeli don’t use that way, the use it on twin seats Jets while the missile is shot, the pilot reduces speed and second seat ploot=gunner guides the missile to it’s target from a screen in front of him with a separate joystick. And its too damn obvious that this Pantsir is OFF it’s not working, if it was working either a missile or 30mm would have shot the missile.
i think you resumed it clearly. it’s my take as well. It’s very unlikely that it’s a “drone” kind of weapon due to the diving angle and the speed.
I could have sworn the video showed at least a few frames of a fourth guy running back to the Pantsir before it was hit. Does anyone else remember that? Different video or was this/the other one edited?
First the guy runs FROM the pantsir. IAF official video starts with the guy already half way towards the group. Then he (most probably same person) runs back to the machine.
The original video is also about twice slower
Pilot changes direction of the plane after launch to maintain standoff and copilot guides missile via data link to tv or IR camera in the nose.
Good one.
The pattern of swinging during approach lokks similar too.
Pantsir can fire on the move. Lord, even ancient Shilka always could! Pantsir is a machine for defending moving columns!!! No, you do not have to spend minutes assembling some specific weapon configuration to move the car, you just fire the engine and go.
Hydrostruts may take few second to be pulled, indeed. However you do not have to pull them one after another, nor you have to lull them completely to START moving. You have an ideally flat runway in amidst somewhat flay steppe. Just press the button to start all struts pulling up and in a second you can start moving. Let the pulling complete when you already is running away!
Yes, they were relaxing, with the machine abandoned turned off right where it was firing, away from any defended hideout. Hit and run. Reflex and space out when in safety.
No, there is nothing to discuss with “reloading team” away from depots and reloading machines.
You discussed everything already, before the fight started. You also have radios and phones, you do not need face to face party. You also do not make reloading team run mikes across runways
These are all reasonable points, The Arioch. The trouble I have accepting a scenario of negligence by the Pantsir crew is 1) this is all based on what we see in a ten-second video – intentionally released by Israel, i.e., it makes Syria look bad, and 2) the Russian-trained Syrian crew of the most expensive and important weapon in Syria today is either too dumb or too incompetent to protect their equipment in battle, has not been trained otherwise and are generally oblivious to the tactics Israel has been using for months against Syrian AD. This all might be perfectly true – I wasn’t there and I am just guessing what a reasonable Syrian Pantsir crew might have been doing at that exact moment.
AFAIR it was in Egypt.
USSR supplied best AD units it had and offered best training it could.
Then israeli came.
They barraged at edge of AD range, mocked, imitated attacks, bullied.
In the end Arabs got meek and started shooting missile after missile.
The jet just baited another missile and when launched it flew a mile or two out its range.
When missile crashed down it flew back in and danced until the next launch.
When missiles were spent the jet approached and destroyed the unit point blank.
Israeli may be bastards, but creative and sturdy they are.
The crew in the video look like robots that executed their program and halted. They do not look around, they do not think, they do not try to see the situation by Israeli eyes. They just stand where their program ended and wait for some engineer to come and download next program into them.
Sure, Israel could have cut the video.
But still we do not have any other plausible explanation.
So your point is it’s definitely human error ?
Perhaps a statement from Syrian side would shine a light of what’s actually happened.
Could’ve been malfunction too.
The malfunction does not mean you should relax im the vicinity of damaged unit being the perfect group target for your enemy.
Frankly, what do you do with a wounded soldier?
If there are still chances for him you quickly move him away to safe place where doctors will repair him.
If he is crippled beyond cure you kill him to stop his suffering.
But you do not gather a party few steps from him.
The damaged unit is the same. Move it ASAP to safe place where it can get repaired or at least scavenged.
Or get away from it at very least.
Even disabled tanks on the battlefield are towed away. And this machine is much more mobile than a tank that lost power.
Perhaps they’re trying to salvage their unit thus on a standby.
To salvage something you have to move it to safety first
The vehicle look ready to move yet it hasn’t moved.
…..then it was no more ready to move.
Israeli saw the opportunity and exploited it
They did not wait for “new orders” from some top brass. They just seriously came for serious fight. And made decisions as soon as they saw any opening.
It should’ve moved yet it hasn’t. So two scenario
1. Malfunctions.
2. Human error.
Both are possible.
Malfunction so bad that the car could not be towed away by ANY other car?
Malfunction that did not manifest itself when car earlier drove into firing position, but somehow suddenly crippled the car right after firing?
Okay, maybe, but then it was clear the car was making “last stand” and if no urgent repair attempts are made any more – it has to be abandoned ASAP. Run away from the sexy target that IAF would probably aim for sooner or later, just run away and take cover.
There are no other car in vicinity. The crew may believe the glitch can be fixed thus on standby and perhaps hoping it to be able to work again.
In so far there’s still little details from Syrian side so yes two most likely scenario which is your point the human errors or malfunction or combination of both.
> The crew may believe the glitch can be fixed
By whom, if they are not working at it this very moment?
> perhaps hoping it to be able to work again.
They better learn what are proper places to rest hoping real fast!
When Iran-Israel war unleashes there will be much more chances to repeat this faux pas.
http://www.translate.ru/site/Humanities/ru-en/?url=https%3a%2f%2fkhazin.ru%2farticles%2f1-mirovoy-krizis%2f58809-zachem
“The damaged unit is the same”
only for fucking propaganda bots and for fat kids who watch too many youtube videos with titles like “US vs Russia comparison 2018”.
So why soldiers near “damaged units” – that most probably never was damaged before Israeli strike – should be relaxing instead of fixing it or moving it away or at least hiding themselves?
you gotta be kidding. the “damaged unit” refers to post strike images.
the unit wasn’t damaged when the video was takn, it was unarmed and turned off.
go home goddamnit.
Yet better. Syrians took non-damaged functional machine, put it to the position where Israeli could strike it and turned it off. And somehow that is normal course of actions during the battle.
Could have been many things. But it’s destroyed (or badly damaged now).
Malfunction would seems to be a problem with the Pantsir unit. These are complex weapons… but built pretty rugged.
Leaving it parked in the open, waiting for re-supply, defenseless and vulnerable, seems a mistake of the Syria crew. Honestly, this seems way more likely. They may have been trained to use the weapon, but that doesn’t make them ‘good soldiers’ (ready to take initiative and protect crew and weapon). But, everyone (even good soldiers) make mistakes.
Only the surviving soldiers know the real story.
“The crew in the video look like robots that executed their program and halted. They do not look around, they do not think, they do not try to see the situation by Israeli eyes. They just stand where their program ended and wait for some engineer to come and download next program into them”
ridiculous. Someone should explain you that people serving acts on orders and not on their own.
They had an order to stand and smoke until some general flew from Damascus with a new order for them?
One of the reasons Hitler lead his wars so successfully was he made his soldiers and low rank officers to behave pro-actively. So, when in 1941 Red Army soldiers waited for orders somehow arrive in the middle of the chaos – the Wehrmacht soldiers acted. And it was one of the things Red Army had to learn before it could turn the tides.
“They had an order to stand and smoke until some general flew from Damascus with a new order for them?”
what an idiocy.
anybody who has even a week of experience in the military at this point would know that it’s not your area of expertise. ww2 .. blah blah .. yeah, everybody knows about ww2, yawn.
you’re here to make pro israel sophisms and put syria in a bad light.
you have my sincerest and utmost disrespect.
That is your idiocy. You say soldiers were okay in to relax in the middle of the battle because no one approached them eith another order. Your words not mine.
You are trying to foster corruption amd negligence in Syrian army in prder to help Israel attack Syria. Disgusting.
your idiocy is that there is no “middle of the battle”.
you are trying to foster bullshittery against syria blathering concepts that don’t apply to the real world and are made to appease israelis.
jewish lawyery won’t change a goddamn thing in a war, it’s only good for saving rapists and murderers from conviction by some US county jury on crack.
> there is no “middle of the battle”.
Hilarious.
I wonder what more so fresh ideas you would make up to foster corruption in Syrian army and help your Israeli friends.
for example, it could be effective not to listen to bs spread by zionist trolls talking about “corruption in Syrian army”.
also notice that when zionists lose arguments they start saying that the winner is a jew, so to at least give up the impression that jews always win arguments.
to me, its all bullshit. israel should deploy military specialized trolls on sf instead of political agitators. at least there would be a contest.
In the video Syrian AD unit was destroyed by Israeli soldiers while Syrian soldiers were chilling out.
Yes, i call this episode “jew won”.
You call destruction of syrian machine by Israeli “syrians won”.
And i guess you would pretend you want more and more syrian victories.
That means you want there to be would more and more those wins, more and more syrian machines destroyed by Israel, while syrian soldiers space out.
“You call destruction of syrian machine by Israeli “syrians won”.”
Bullshit.
I call this episode like this:
“Israeli propaganda could not come up with nothing better than showing they hit an unarmed and uncrewed anti air battery. Which is something that in addition of being unimpressive as a feat, speaks volume on their real capability – otherwise they would had shown a hit on an operational battery. Anybody being informed on these themes is starting not to believe israeli bs anymore”.
Striking a M-SHORAD unit when it was vulnerable was a pretty nifty feat. Making the attack look “safe for the attacker” is the hallmark of an effective for me. The fault seems to lay with the lackluster battle experience with its Syrian crew.
And there were other hits on other SAM systems. But, this attack had news-worthy video feed from the missile.
Btw, the purpose of standoff missiles is to keep the aircrew farther from harm’s way. But that Pantsir had expended its missiles. And other SAMs had launched as well. So, other attacks had been in areas defended by AA weapons.
This was not a propaganda attack. It was a serious attack aimed at destroy an enemies capability and will to fight.
“Striking a M-SHORAD unit when it was vulnerable was a pretty nifty feat”
actually, no if you want to say that “SA-22 can’t stop the IAF” like Israel said.
“And there were other hits on other SAM systems”
This is what Israel said. Yet they shown only one hit on a disabled system.
“This was not a propaganda attack”
It was.
Everytime Israel provides some proof of what it says, it can be refuted by an 8th grader.
I’m not some Israel fan-boy. But I give them due props for their military savvy.
I don’t know who or how the SA-22 vs Israel statement was made. Overarching conclusions like that are usually baseless, each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. Not every engagement will play into your weapon’s favor. Sometimes the best stealth can be defeated by even non-top-of-the-line SAMs (as in Serbia).
But to claim this, and all Israel attacks, are “propaganda” is inaccurate. You may not like Israel. But, objectively, they were able to:
* Identify Iranian targets in Syria
* Plan a strike
* Communicate strike with Russia
* Attack multiple targets
* Destroy a handful of SAM batteries
* Use F-35 first time in battle
Return home without loss
This speaks to a serious, cunning and professional military.
“* Identify Iranian targets in Syria
* Plan a strike
* Communicate strike with Russia
* Attack multiple targets
* Destroy a handful of SAM batteries
* Use F-35 first time in battle”
you used the word “objectively” in the usual propaganda style.
Actually ALL the above points have been stated by Israel alone and not confirmed by anybody else.
Even western people did not completely lose their critical sense. The problem is that they use it at the leisure of their propaganda machines instead of applying it in general.
If Russia stated the same exact things written above, we would witness a litany of comments and articles stating that “These are Russia’s statements and they cannot be verified”.
This in general.
In particular, no country has ever lied as much as Israel in war subjects. Not Saddam’s Irak, not Gaddafi’s Lybia. Israel is literally in a league of its own when it comes to spreading lies about its military achievements.
You have hatred problems which is clouding your judgement. But, I wish you well.
so israeli. wonder why you didn’t bring up the holocaust.
Because I’m Protestant and you’re loony
hooha.
@the arioch; respectfully, you say..’Hitler led his wars so successfully’. ?? How do you reckon this conclusion? Hitler’s own generals would not agree with you on this, in fact siting his constant interfering with their military planning as being a key reason for many, subsequent disappointments in the field.
“Generals are always preparing to the wars of past”
However, until Hitler bitten the piece too large to swallow he swiped all opponent armies.
He also managed to rush to Moscow in just 6 months.
Then came the war of attrition, and such.
But which war did Wehrmacht failed before December 1941 ?
Arabs have very poor fire discipline. It is common practice to shoot off weapons aimlessly in the air for celebratory purposes. The casual manner the 3 crewmen are loafing around does not show good training or motivation. Even if the launcher was out of ammo, another one should have been covering it. Also reload trucks could be placed nearby in dug up secure positions. The Russians are idiots too as they had their planes lined up at the airbase without even blast proof walsl when the headchoppers knocked off 8 Ruski planes with mortars. Russian military is proving one of the worst third world types. No wonder they have lost so many aircraft and men. The SAA has not improved much either.
Have you considered that the truck was a fake?
No, TS. Good point. Russians know how eager Israel is to destroy the Syrian Pantsirs and any other SAM. Thow a nice Pantsir replica on the appropriate chassis and toss in a little UHF/EHF fake radar transmitter to draw the attention of any anti-radiation missiles. A nice, believable decoy target. You would, of course, want that sitting out in the open.
And four guys standing around the fake unit? This would be one heck of fake!!
And the post-action pics of the damaged unit were of a fake as well?
But, decoys would be a very good way of of distracting your attacker against false targets. But, this close video shows a very real Pantsir.
By the way Pantsir can only fire on the move with its autocannon, not the missiles.
Syria’s Airdefence has dramatically improved in the last year.
It’s costly learning curve however,…and with this recent outcome,….obvious tactical changes must be implemented.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Air_Defense_Force#Equipment
Iran also has several Area denial Jamming systems. …
Certainly capable to cover point defence area….vs Jammers that Russia has which have area coverage overlapping nations in the mid east.
I believe Iran’s using their Jammers and Radars in Syria….which IAF have repeatedly attacked.
Problem for Syria is attrition of these key assist resources.
Up till now….I know of no Iranian BUK M2E named RAAD,…or other mobile Airdefence Iran builds operating in Syria.
With Putin compromised by obligations to Netanyahu. ..
Iran could step up its support ,…possibly Syria and Iran build the Bavar 373….with Syria
getting a capable S 300 .
One would imagine Iran wanting to test and R&D it’s Air defence in Syria with programs where Syrian Airdefence also learns and networks.
IMO,….Israhell is not going to back off their attacks unless IAF start losing 1-2 Aircraft with others damaged.
Iran has Pantsir ….possibly they are working on a copy of that system.
Which could give Syria Iranian made missile reload
Would Putin cut a deal with Iran that Iran not introduce any of its made airdefence systems?
Is Assad this screwed over in the game?
Assad should abandon these Russian made aimless shit and try to get some Western air defence systems
ha ha
In real combat time is of primary importance, no excuse for not moving even a few clicks each day, non static in place.
You are knowing full well after firing you will need immediate defensive measures put in place. reloading, which no bullshit need be at that ti.e out of hiding and nearby with well trained crews.
Poor mindset of monkeys playing with high tech weaponry who get kicks out of supposed infalability of bottle rockets.
Syrian military as well as Iranian troop have piss poor military discipline and almost no people with high tech skills needed .
One would think that any crew would be sensible enough to save one or two missiles to defend the platform as a last resort instead of using them all up and leaving it just sitting defenceless.
Any device is defenseless when it stands in the open against many enough enemies.
When they were low on ammunition, last missile, last 100 shells, they truly had to stsrt moving to some hideout for reloading or for cover at least.
If the firing position of the Pantsir was fixed to provide specific air coverage, the truck with the reloads should have been nearby, for a quick rendezvous and reload.
S300 and S400 launchers have their reloads nearby and they move along with the launchers when they move to change locations.
The same practice is applied with MRLS and SPG’s that have the reload trucks nearby in order to provide a sustained effective rate of fire.
Syria needs more Pantsirs to increase their density against saturation attacks.
If Israel is able to concentrate 100 cruise missiles at a few specific targets in Syria, there should by enough Pantsir missiles to effectively engage the swarm. 12-20 Pantsir units are needed to engage the swarm effectively. Of course, effective EW countermeasures would alleviate the task to a significant degree, however, Syria needs to have enough point defense firepower to counter anything Israel is willing to throw at them.
With Israeli rate of success of cruise missile attacks at 50%, they are not very effective, Pantsir platform is highly effective when employed in adequate numbers.
Russia’s reluctance to give Syria the S300 system, is likely due because Russia wants the war in Syria wrapped up instead of possible escalation if the S300 shoots down Israeli jets.
Reinforcing Syrian point defense systems would render Israeli attacks wasteful, meaningless and a source of great frustration on part of the IAF.
I think Russia is having trouble getting enough of the production run as soon as it wants them for its own forces. Pantsirs seem to be in pretty high demand lately. Last I heard, Syria had 50 ordered but the last 10 delivered were to be transferred to Iran. I think it would be difficult for Syria to get any more from Russia even if they did have the money.
Syria really needs to flesh out its longer-range SAM coverage, too. If an Israeli aircraft fires a missile into syria from anywhere – Israel, Jordan or Lebanon – then it should expect to be visited by a Gammon over it’s own territory or after it’s landed at its own airbase. Syria does have some missile trucks close to the golan border, but not nearley enough.
Why is there so much demand for this junk which has never shot down anything including seagulls and crows
Why are you trolling and hating like a fool ? This does not stop the fact that half of Israeli terrorist attack or aggression against syria were shot down Pantsir is too formidable weapon that it need 60 Cruise missiles to destroy just one and it has to be guided. And again this is the first time land to Land missiles were used more. This is a good news ok and it means Israel now know its limits.
Checking videos of Panstir on youtube, one would know that its missiles is 100% faster than what hit it. So this is not an issue of Pantsir not able to take out that incoming missile… This is an issue of something else happening. Syrians will learn from it and always adjust trust me
The most interesting part is Syria has changed the rules of the game for the first time. Lauched massilve MBRL to the occupied territory of Golan Height. By any internatonal norms, Syria is fighting on its land.
What planet do you live on? What disabled a good portion of 70% of the FUKUS missiles that were fired on April 13?
Do you want a face off between a squadron of Apache squadron, 20 Tomahawks and a batch of other British, French and Israeli junk against a battalions of Pantsir-S1 ?
I’ve heard a lot about Pantsir. It seems a good design, but without really an independent study it’s hard to be sure. Russia over-hypes their military capability, so does the rest of the world. Its true performance is unknown.
What is known, a weapon is only as good as the team that uses it. This Syrian Pantsir team might have been marginally trained to use the weapon, but their lack of military effectiveness doomed them.
I can’t fault the Pantsir for this. But, I can fault the Syrian forces.
This is why Syrian AF Need S-300 badly to stop the saturation attacks. S-300Vm is specifially designed for this kind of attack.. Supply to Syrian forces will surely change the game or military balance.
Israel doesn’t want that & has ordered it’s vassal state Russia not to supply it.
Huh! Did you say Vassal state ? You must be wanking in your dead dream. Wake up from your slumber, if for anything, Israel would be begging Russia not to do it. Trust me Russia has already Said they will supply anything to help the Syrians Fight the Anglozionist empire. And this does not stop at S-300.
Russia is not a Vassal, if for anything Russia seems to be the only Adult in the Room and trying all it can not to Escalate the matter but if the Zionists think they can do what it likes, trust me, you will see more of their F-16 being shutdown.
The last bombing really show the zionists know their limits. Many of the cruise missile fired were from land.. This is a good news for Syria. For a crook terroist state to have settled to use more land to land missile. This is a big shift and it simply mean Syria now Imposes New Rules Of Engagement On Israel . A good news if you ask me.
When Turkey shot down Su24.. Russia did not go to war with Turkey because of that.. Again Russia sees a long term strategy in Syria while the Zionists only see a short time victory. Same goes to Iran, Iran over the years have been winning on all fronts. Now nearly or if not already sorrounded the Zionist stolen state.. Lebanon just voted in more Hezblar forces. Iraq is more pro Iran. Now Syria.
The best for the zionist not to loss is not to fight in this coming war. Again check what is on ground before typing next time. Russia is not a vassal state, it used to be during the days of Yeltsin but not any longer.
If Russia is not a vassal, why is Putin obeying orders from Netanyahu?
Why did Putin introduce ‘anti-semitism’ and ‘holocaust-denial’ laws?
Why does he outwardly espouse Christian values, yet hold gatherings with ‘jewish’ leaders and drone on and on about their ‘suffering’ and how ‘more needs to be done’ for jews?
I thought he was going to be a man of righteousness, but he’s just another zionist puppet.
hmnmnm lol.. Too much accusation at the same time. Many people surely want RUssia/Putin to do more. To answer all your questions. I would just say that, Russia to me seems to be the only Adult in the room.
Russia sees a long term strategy in the middle east where everyone lives peacfully. Israel has been a asshole since the begining of the war and anyone will notice Russia’s body Language. When dealing in international sphere, you have to deal with it being unbiased.
Same goes to Iran. Russia and Iran share a lot in common. The next adult in the Room is Iran. Trust me, Iran has been very strong against the Zionist empire and fast becoming even more than a regional power. These are the things to look into in the middle east.
What more do you want Russia to do. Check what happened at the begining of the war and check when Russia joined militarily. Did you see changes ?? Now come back in six months and tell me how far.
Israel is just been childish here and showing all signs of massive weakness. Adults in the room understand perfectly. The war is slowly but steadily clossing in on the zionist forces. Check Europe now. Germany particularly cant have a real deal or trustes U.S..
This put Russia again in the position of a good partner and someone to deal with.A better partner. See what U.S and Israel did to iran deal. Now this is a very big Political outcom to those who choose to keep Iranian deal.
Watch what will happen in the coming weeks or months. The Zionist system aready is in internal issues.
Don’t forget, this was the same zionist forces that liquidated during Soviet union. Dont forget, they were the same zionist forces that hijacked Russia under Bolsheveik. History is also about to repeat itself.. Anglozionist empire is now safe to say it’s a carbon copy of USSR.
Its end is near. Russia just needs to buy more time.. That’s it. Just see their media again. Anyone can remember very well, the same feeling during USSR where the people stopped belieiving in the lies.
Looking at this engagement with a cold engineering eye, it is obvious this AD system has design flaws. We overcome inbuilt design problems by adding a temporary external solution until such time that the solution can be incorporated into the system. However, there are occasions when incorporating a modification into an existing system is out-weighed by the cost. New systems will have the upgrade, while older ones have to employ the external solution. In this case the problem is known, yet a remedy is absent. It is obvious to me and I’m sure many more that the crew should be also trained in the use of the Verba 9K333, this would safeguard the Pantsir launch platform… Unless of course this is another piece of hardware that Putin has agreed not to supply to Syria….
The Pantsir should be the innermost layer of a (in the case of Damascus) regional air defense and EW network. During the Israeli attack, it seems like they were employed as if they were the first and nearly the only line of defense. Israel was jamming Syrian AD radar from the Golan and Mt. Hermon, and they also have head-choppers setting up jamming stations on the hills in southern Syria. Russia just helped blow one of them away a few weeks ago.
I wonder just what the Pantsirs’ own radar could actually see looking towards the southeast – almost directly into the jamming. Jamming resistance lets the Pantsir see things closer to the radar, but doesn’t help much at the edge of the radar’s range. The S-200s tracking and engagement radar was probably blind as well, and couldn’t pass approaching threats to the Damascus Pantsirs (not that it would have helped in this case).
The optical targeting in the video is an inverted IR image – at night. Hard to pick out a cruise missile or a little drone at night with a Verba unless you know almost exactly where it is (or where it’s coming from).
The Israeli cruise missile optical targeting is relayed via a satellite link. Israel should never be able to use a real-time satellite link from/to a weapon that close to Syrian military installations around Damascus. I wonder if Russia pulled their jamming equipment and crews from Damascus, or if there’s something else going on. Israeli cruise missiles optical targeting can be handed off to another aircraft, drone or ground station. Maybe someone closer in?
Pantsir’s own radar – which one?
It has two radars. The all-around situation awareness one and a narrow focused between-cannons for fine aiming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUd3cxTcR8w
http://novosib-room.ru/uploads/novosib/2016/12/22876814.jpg
the “all around situation” is actually a search radar while the other is an engagement one. what a fucking analphabet, go back at commenting youtube vids.
So, you still evade answering questions. What a nice Jewish habits you developed.
the only jewish habit is the one you are exhibiting by keeping up posting bs instead of stfu. you can’t save face when you already lost it.
Now you again evaded answering a simple question and try to hide it by personal attacks.
“When your expensive equipment runs out of ammo in the middle of an
exchange of fire, you have to reload it. It takes a few minutes to pull
the struts and stow the radar and guns before you move it. The ammo
bunker and reloading truck are somewhere else at the airport. Good
military practice is never to bring the ammo, reloader and launcher
together unless you’re actually reloading. And even then only one
Pantsir would be allowed near the reloading area at a time. Maybe a
second one at Mezzeh was being reloaded.”
Okay, here’s the problem. You have a $13,000,000 air defense asset that is out of ammo in the middle of a coordinated air attack. What sounds more prudent: leaving it right out in the open because apparently your doctrine for reloading/resupplying is a Chinese Fire Drill Exercise, or move the vehicle to cover/concealment where at least not anything in the sky can see it for miles away? Anywhere would be fine, and it’s out of ammunition and operating the radar just means an even more inviting target for anti-radiation missiles when you can fire anything to defend it. So why leave it out in the open? You don’t HAVE to park it inside the ammo bunker or the reloading area when apparently said aforementioned Chinese Fire Drill Exercise to rearm a Pantsir was taking place. Just park it somewhere where there is a roof over it so it’s not immediately visible to everything in the air.
“The base is only 4 km from the Presidential Palace and is in some of the
most heavily defended airspace on earth. It was (or should have been)
covered by nearly every other Pantsir or SAM in the Damascus area. Some
other system probably shot at the Israeli missile as it approached, but
missed. It’s not likely it flew unchallenged all the way across Syria to
the airbase. But it did come after a saturation attack – that wasn’t by
accident. Half the Israeli missiles made it through to hit something.”
Isn’t this even more damning?! Continuing from above, if this was the case and you knew you were under attack and the enemy will start hitting your air defense systems or other targets of opportunity – WHY LEAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS OUT OF AMMO OUT IN THE OPEN?!
“This Pantsir crew was talking with the reloading crew and ready to move
the truck. The Israelis had a Delilah ready to be there when the Pantsir
was shut down. That’s exactly how you would take out Pantsirs after a
saturation attack. You can’t attack it if the radar and machine guns are
still working. The attack video is intentionally slowed at the end, but
the targeting overlay is the same seen in other Delilah air-launched
cruise missile attacks (Iranian drone trailer). Israel just fed the
‘suicide drone’ BS to the media – a slow, large propeller-driven Harot
wouldn’t have made it anywhere near Mezzeh – they’re easy to shoot down.
Israel isn’t adverse to burning through a half-dozen expensive Delilahs
if one of them might make it through to actually take out a SAM. They
can launch these from the Lebanese coast or northern Israel – plenty of
range to reach Damascus.”
1.) Less talking with crews, more getting the expensive sitting duck somewhere under cover/concealment. Or reloading the god damn thing.
2.) You keep going on about Delilah missiles. Almost every single source is saying it’s an IAI Harop. Even Russian (Sputnik News, so they’ll be relatively pro-Syrian and wishing to downplay this even more than you are) sources are claiming it was a Harop. So unless you know something we all don’t – it was an IAI Harop, not a Delilah, so let’s stop talking about Delilah missiles.
3.) Again, with the Delilahs, there are plenty of systems which use/borrow from targeting overlays of other systems. In fact, when I first saw this video I immediately had “Maverick” come to mind because of how similar they were. I really, really do not get why you are so fixated on this being a Delilah, to the point of denying all sources (even pro-Syrian ones) and thinking the Israelis using a Harop SEAD drone is a propaganda claim that is not possible.
4.) I assume you were referencing the IAI Harop when you said Harot. And the assertion that it wouldn’t make it anywhere near Mezzeh is unsubstantiated and baseless. Delilahs also shouldn’t be reaching Messeh and be hitting within a stone’s throw of the Presidential Palace, either. So… asserting that Harops wouldn’t is rather foolhardy. Also, the Harop is slow, but it’s also a low-observable drone that is actually smaller in length and wingspan than an Andean Condor. Granted, not many of them flying around Syria I don’t imagine, but it’s also not the easiest target to identify – savvy? In fact, the biggest giveaway that the Harop isn’t a bird is the fact that it’s flying too fast. With an endurance of 6 hours and a range of ~600 miles, it’s about 100 MPH or so. Most birds aren’t flying that fast unless they’re diving. That said, still not a target that is immediately noticeable and not one that the Pantsir was really designed for to kill.
Good points…
But, I think this Pantsir was still armed.
* Out of missiles? Very possible
* Out of 30MM? Possible (those 2 guns can really burn ammo)
* Electronic warfare system? Should be perfectly functional
This Pantsir unit SHOULD have been able to defend itself with EW. Russia is always going on about the capability of their EW systems. It is “ELECTRONIC WARFARE” – it’s a weapon. But, this Pantsir unit could not defend itself. In fact, it didn’t even jam the return video feed. Sheesh! It may indeed be de-energized, but turning off your remaining weapon seems a little foolish. They may have turned it off so as to not draw attention to themselves (being out of ammo). But, in doing so they disabled their last weapon to defend themselves.
1. They turned off the device when it run out of missiles, but did it also run out of auto-cannon shells?
2. They allegedly tried to attack Israel jets. Pantsir is very short range device, 35-50 km. NATO anti-radar missiles for comparison have 90-120 km range.
So i wonder when and how they performed those attacks.
Many years ago, in Egypt i guess, Israel jets used to barrage at the very edge of the USSR-suplied AD launchers range. When eager Arabs attacked, it only took Israeli to fly a mile away to make missile fall down exhausting all fuel. Then Israeli moved back and bullied them until they launch next missile. After all missile spent they desintegrated now defenseless unit.
I can onky wonder if that crew “tried to engage” enemy jets the same way again :-(
3. Even if Pantsir run out of both missile and shells, why turning it off? Why not continue watching the situation around you by radar? They did not try to hide, so why shutting down the radar?
“And it wasn´t a laser guided bomb, but a drone that was used”
no, it was a cruise missile datalinked to a plane flying over lebanon.
“It was an unprofessional movement by SAA to let an expensive equipment in an open field in a middle of an exchange of fire”
What did they have to do? bury it?
Some believe it should be driving in circles to create a dust cloud. :D
If you’re deploying your AAA in a manner that prevents you from concealing it, and at the same time leaves it unprotected by any other batteries, you might as well just throw it away. From the video it looked like it was deployed on an airfield, presumably military. These usually have concrete archways that are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to both conceal critically important vehicles and protect them from air attacks. If none of these are available, a camo net is a thousand times better than nothing, especially against a TV guided drone with a relatively small payload.
“especially against a TV guided drone with a relatively small payload”
again, this is a datalinked missile, not a drone. the rest is gibberish.
It was an IAI Harop. Please enlighten me as to how that qualifies as a missile.
it’s too fast to be a drone (actually a “loitering munition”).
Israel has been using this particular kind of missiles (guided via datalink and with the acquiring sensor on the missile itself) since the 70ies in large numbers and developed several upgraded variants.
it appears it’s the only country to have used them in large numbers operationally. Both Russia (Kh-59 series) and the US (AGM130) have similarly configured weapons but they haven’t been used much or at all, probably because of concerns on the datalinks being compromised.
The camera on the nose adds to the cinematic effect and Israel often exploits this aspect to reaffirm with the public its image of ruthlessness in revenge.
In this case, it kinda backfired, at least with people who aren’t complete blockheads, as it shows nothing more than an helpless target being hit.
Loitering munitions can be both drones (Harop) and missiles (Delilah). If you compare the released footage to that of actual missiles, you’ll notice the approach is much slower with the Pantsir here. And I don’t think it really backfired, it shows a state-of-the-art AA system being overwhelmed. Most people won’t be asking why, or what was the success rate of the missiles it exhausted previously, or whether it would fare better if deployed in a more tactically viable way and manned by a more competent crew. All they’ll see is an AA system failing at the very thing it was designed to do.
“All they’ll see is an AA system failing at the very thing it was designed to do”
No AA system has ever been designed to shoot down targets when out of ammunition and without crew.
And the rest just means, that Israel couldn’t do any better than this. If and when they’ll get that they can’t keep up their invincibility myth anymore they’ll probably get more respect.
So let me sum this up. The operator of the system leaves it uncrewed, unprotected and unconcealed on an airstrip after it runs out of ammunition. And somehow I should feel contempt for *Israel* instead for exploiting the criminal negligence… uh-huh.
let me sum it up:
you ziotrolls are ridiculous.
leave military things and go talk about the things zionists talk about.
Oy vey, I have been revealed! Yes, yes, give me your shekels, goyim.
You know what, how about YOU go play with the other stormkids and leave military matters to people who have a clue and don’t feel the need to include politics and push their agenda in every other paragraph?
i could not had told it better.
You are in the den of the KremelBots. Your logical reasoning would be effective to people with open minds. Not here though…
If that is the correct, then there is a range/freq. where Russian Jamming is not doing its job. By rights I would expect them to jam all “guiding” frequencies ??????
russian jamming does not cover the entire country, and it’s there to protect their own assets. moreover,it’s not something that must happen necessarily.
for example, if you have ways to jam certain enemy weapons, you don’t do it unless certain tactical conditions are met, since you would inform the enemy that you can jam that particular system and make them take measures that will give it an advantage in other situations.
all in all, this kind of judgement is particularly aimless, and remembers me of football fans who never played in their life criticizing a coach because he subbed a certain player or he took some other decision.
Israel wanted to destroy a Sa-22 and show it at all cost over the internet. The only thing they could come up is showing a hit on a system that was uncrewed, unarmed and turned off.
This in itself should speak much more than the pharisaic comments seen in this section.
I’d like to hear your opinion on why Russia is reluctant to give S300 systems to the Syrians ?
my opinion is that currently there is not much point in giving Syria system that would take months (actually at least a year or more) to be operational, that would put a burden on the already overstretched resources of Syrian air defences and several other reasons.
it would require also a large reorganization of the Syrian AD, and the introduction of several devices, both technical and tactical (Like a new EW network and relative trained personnel).
To sum up: it’s not a cost effective measure to be implemented currently. It will certainly be cost effective after the war has ended and the state is stable again.
Russia has taken somehow charge of air defence, which is preventing the other parties to perform war-changing operations in Syria. This is working pretty well, although zionist of cryptozionist sites and users tell otherwise.
Yet the course these people took, the one of provocation, is one of the better confirmations us, the public, can have that my above statement is valid.
Thank you for your response, and after deliberating, I agree largely to your oversight. I have felt , for a long time now, that the reorganization of the Syrian AD should have happened a long time ago…………….and started certainly when the Russians became active partners, but considering the massive fire fighting exercise the Syrian forces have had to perform, then it is nor surprising that the re-org. is taking time.The only solution in the interim is for the RuAD to shore up the gaps where possible.
Have a good week, kind regards.
“Have a good week, kind regards”
thank you, you too.
I have been confused by this as well. The S-300 is far more capable.
But, I think the answer lays in the hands of the users. I suspect that training Syria to be effective users of air-defense systems is taking longer than Russia would like. They struggle with simpler systems, and the S-300 is a big step up.
And reality is that each of these systems might be sold to other countries. I really don’t think Russia wants the negative publicity of a ‘S-300 Fails to Stop Attack’ report, when the REAL problem is not the weapon, but its struggling operators.
And fortunately they just happened to find a lame duck parked out in the open.
Maybe israel should be more like Russian mercenaries, and sacrifice themselves in a foolhardy attack?
“Maybe israel should be more like Russian mercenaries, and sacrifice themselves in a foolhardy attack?”
I would say “sacrifice themselves in a foolhardy attack so to appease the pentagon and give mike pompeo and the nyt an excuse to state that they killed Russians”.
My point was…
It is the goal of any military operation to not make it a “fair fight”. You want soldiers, weapons, training, mission to gain a clear upper hand in any engagement.
Russia, US, Israel…. All try to do this. This does not reflect on the bravery or honesty of the army.
let’s say it clear so no misunderstandings happen:
the US LIED about bombing Russian mercenaries.
Hope this doesn’t lead to any other “interpretation”
What did they lie about?
are you done yet?
do you rly think it costs me anything to keep up with this shit?
What did they lie about?
But still the radar on the system should be on Automatic and any incoming mortar shells will be destroyed by 30mm cannons, if all missiles are been shoot, and after all missiles are shoot, the 30mm autocannon should have shoot down that missile
Not a very good reflection of Russian weaponry or SAA deployment tactics. What kind of idiots would deploy a single Pantsir launcher without secondary cover. Even if ammo was exhausted, the second unit could have covered the re-loading process. Even fighter aircraft operate in pairs with a wingman so that they can be covered. On the positive side the damaged unit will provide its manufacturers with a lot of data for improvements. US and Zionist weaponry and tactics are the same so Russia will learn a lot from this embarrassing episode. I think that is why they don’t use the dud S-400 either.
Now put all the blame on the crew to save this piece of Russian junk
Another foolish comment from you. Stop trolling, you Idi0t and terrorist sympathizer. Your anglozionist crooks is in its final stage of existence. Mere terrorist sympathizer.
Filty Islamic territorist lover, shut your piehole!
No everything is between religious lines, you fool. This is where you always act like another moron with no common sense. This has nothing to do with religion but more to do with geo-politics hiding under religious conflict, an ideology often times artificial to carry out its geo-political goal of invade, break, conquer and rule. (How old are you ?) Stop playing with the keyboard, this is not section for game freaks, you bloody terrorist sympathizer.
Big fool like you are just too foolish to understand the difference.. You are either a terrorist or not a terrorist in this whole formation. Anyone attacking Syria, sending bombs or univited in this war is a terrorist and you are nothing but a terrorist sympathizer here.
By the way, Im more of a tradionist but not some foolish religion which is created by human.
Umm…by the name Naija you are from Nigeria, one would think you are an Arab or even a Syrian, with the hate you are spewing you must be a Muslim.
I support Israel because no Jew has caused me pain or spilled the blood of anyone I know, yet we see hordes of Islamic killers shouting Allah Akbar then killing innocent women and children. Israel has a right to defend its borders and I support whatever action they take to secure its citizens cis we all know how violent the servants of that savage prophet was.
Here in Nigeria, we have Muslim terrorists affiliated to ISIS killing people, blowing up churches…have you heard of the little Christian girl Leah that Boko Haram refused to release because she didnt convert to vile Islam???? Idiots like you are the problem that think it isn’t religious, smell the coffee you dumb broad, it is all about Islam dominating the world…Where they are a majority they force their filthy religion on your dumb ass or make you pay the tax “Jizya”.
If you a traditionalist as you claim, why don’t you visit any Muslim majority and live there, then see how you get treated else, shut up and let Israel defend her people pratt!
Humanity knows no bound, race, colour or what have you.. Only the use of common sense is highly needed here..
You are too foolish to understand Boko haram is ruled by the same zionist forces. Boko haram has long claimed allegence to their ISIS terrorist counterparts, this is not news. What you foolish idiot that always draw everything along religious lines dont know is this.. Boko haram is from Wahhabism Ideology. One of the school of thought in Sunni and it’s backed by the Zionist forces. Anglozionist forces..
Their aim has always been to invade, devide conquer and rule. These have been used for decades by the Anglo-saxon-zionist control to invade countries while they come later or use it as pretext to set up their base.. The mis-calculation your anglozionist war-lord miss is Nigeria has pass through this lines before. (Nigerian Civil war)..
The same thing they tried. Jonathan was the president that killed the political outcome of their Boko haram forces in Nigeria. The moment he sent the anglo-american boots on the ground out. he defeated Boko haram politically.
Obviously these forces are no dead, they just re-branded to now Fulani-herdmen ok. Even though Nigeria has techinically won the war.. Stop for once and open up your dead braincells.
How can anyone in its right senses surpport mere terrorist state that ever since its inception(After first world war) has caused soo much death, dismay, corruption and bloodshared in the region. This is where the use of Humanity is needed above religion(Rubbish manmade brainwash), agains boarder lines, country or even race.
Open your dead braincells for once. Israel is a terrorist state that has lost its mind finally.
Israel Defend ittself has been the most foolish mantra widely marketed by the same zionist forces and it will even surprise anyone to have a foolish nonentity like you repeat the same mantra. Israel can defend itself but Syria should not right ? Palestine should not right? Then you bastard, foolish brainwash non human continue the same brain dead mantra. Omo ale jati jati..
Again since inception of Israeli terror state in the middle east, there have been bloodshed, blood bath, dismay, corruption and death. You foolish bastard then continue the same foolish mantra about one having the right to defend itself then the rest has no equal right..
Yor stupidity at maximum level forgets what happened in South Africa. Another Appartheid regime in 21st century ?? Are you even insane or out of touch ?
My spirituality has nothing to do with war. If for anything, only in the foolish manmade religion you will have such a thing as religious war, both crussade and jihad… Something you will never ever find in traditional invisible identities.
You bloody brainwash bastard. Wake up for once ok.
See list of warCriminals, mere terrorist that should wrought in jail for crime against humanity.
#WarCriminals
2011. Syria. An anti government operation began in 2011 against the government of Bashar al-Assad, the elected president of Syria. The following politicians from Europe, US, Australia, USA and Canada were involved in this ongoing war crime: President Donald Trump, President Barack Obama, Charles Hagel, Ashton Carter, James Mattis, Lloyd Austin, James L. Terry, Joseph Votel, Stephen J. Townsend, Lars Lokke Rasmussen, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, Theresa May, David Cameron, Stephen Hiller, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull, Trevor Jones, David Johnston, Francois Hollande, Jean-Yves Le Drian, Pierre de Villers, Angela Merkel, Ursula von der Leyen and Volker Wieker, Stephen Harper, Justin Trudeau, Thomas J. Lawson, Yvan Blondin, King Abdullah II, Abdullah Ensour, Benjamin Netanyahu, Avigdor Lieberman, Rav Aluf Gadi Eizenkot, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Nurettin Canikli and Hulusi Akar..
*** Interesting development ***
It turns out that Israel has activated 9
their of F-35s. They admitted that some of these were involved in their recent strike in Syria.
I’m not sure what the implications are… But considering the inexplicable behaivor of the Pantsir crew, this might have bearing. Apparently 100 SAM missiles were fired… Hit nothing
A classical saturation attack. Every air defense system has it’s limits, just overload it with incoming missiles. Plus an inexperienced crew and a poor use of the system.
Day by day the myth of the invincible Soviet-Russian wunderwaffen is fading away…
what the hell are you talking about?
Some realized that it is no wonder Russia can’t even produce a working television set or a car. If you ever used ANY Russian equipment then You’d know. Apart from the stuff designed by Mr. Kalashnikov. Those are workable.
Yes, let’s all go back to the 1960s to drub Russia. They were just lucky that their weaponry, some even as old as the BS you’re spewing, eliminated 70% of super-duper hi-tech beautiful smart US designed junk, uh, missiles. Damn lucky!
Yea, they said so. And then its !snap! true!
Eat and drink unsupported claims my friend. Bon Appetit!
(And next time say that the success rate was like 99%, its more sexy! You can’t substantiate either percentage, no?)
how are they unsupported? When Russia showed all the evidance of them beeing shot down.
Not even a US made anti air missile vehicle can survive a barrage of cruise missiles.
Pantsir is without doubt a proper short range anti air missile vehicle.
Why do the CIA/hasbara trolls never get an upgrade to their ridiculous arguments?
1.”The Syrians don’t need eastern Syria! The oil is all crappy and full of road tar!”
2. “As a US fighter pilot, I want to assure everyone that when I take an R-70 missile up the a*s, I experience great personal comfort from the fact that Russians cannot build tv sets.”
3. “Poor, poor, broke a*s Russia! When will they copy the US and add perpetual motion machine technology to their Treasury Dept printing presses!?!?”
Can you cite a single occurence of R-70 (but any lile Aphid, Atoll or whatnot) ever used successfully against non-soviet/russian made aircraft? :) :D Dunno what hasbara means but it must be something that is over the rocks you sleep under, mate.
Ah, so your hole game plan us for missiles to just *go around*.
You really should join us under these rocks.
We can see the stupid from here.
Hasbara= Internet troll who can’t seem to pull themselves away from the Mossad’s glory hole.
you obviousely are retaded i leave you to your ignorance.
What I like the most about you is that when you can not prove your point then you always take the dive. And since you served zero days ever in any armed outfit… you are sir a tool.
…you do realise the irnoy of your statment right ? xD
Nothing intelligent.
Well every weapon system eventually have shown flaws, drawback, etc. Patriot missiles comes to mind.
A bad dancer says the floor is crooked.
fucking knew it.
A happy thought for those still sore by the visual assault on the soul committed by that Israhelli video. Given that all the missiles were expended when the pantsir was destroyed, does it not, in a highly counterintuitive way, prove the panstirs lethality? If the IDF waited until the complex had exhausted it’s missiles, does this not illustrate that flares, jamming, spoofing and all the other trickery that combat aircraft employ, are not reliable enough to come within range of this system?
Fun fact: the original panstirs had 16 missile tubes, not 12.
No the pantsir may have not in operation at the time it’s taken out. That begs the question how the Israel located them when it’s radar isn’t emitting.
It don’t seem in combat mode. If anything it look like it about to relocate.
Yes, looks like a Harop suicide drone. I read that it was specifically developed for this purpose, that is, to attack units that come out and go in the shelter frequently. Harops are quite small and hard for radars to detect. They loiter in the area and attack when all the ammo is spent. Harop can home in on radiation source, but Pantsir would probably take it out if it tried when it’s active. So the Israelis locate a Pantsir unit and count the ammo usage, like in the Wild West, wait for the radar to turn off, and then go to live video link for the final approach. Loitering suicide drones will bring in an extra layer of defence complexity, but the concept is quite simple – it is basically an ambush device. It’s a drone arms race.
Call me old fashioned but I would have thought that a few ton bags of sand could be used to create a plethora of rudimentary shelters around the area for these vehicles when not in an active state. Preferably with camouflage nets as well .
No different really to a trained infantryman creating a shell scrape before he stands down for a rest.
Basic soldiering.
Human factor has always been the key advantage of Israel in all the wars against Arabic nations. You may give the most advanced and expensive system to an army. All that you do for them will be in vain if they leave it unprotected in an open field and go for a smoke or a prayer.
Unfortunately that advantage too were diminishing. You only have to look at their number one guy Netanyaho.
Well, here comes the ” caught with their Pantsir down” jokes. The destruction of the SA-22 system is a wet dream come true for the Israeli Company that makes the NLOS missiles that were used. Clearly, the Israeli’s understood that they needed a barrage of missiles to overwhelm the air-defense systems, and it worked. Simple calculations. How the Syrians didn’t foresee this?? Now, the Israeli’s will perfect the technique. Pre-position their loiter drones, ECM aircraft / platforms, fire a barrage of low-tech dummy / decoy missiles to expend the Syrian missile batteries while they pinpoint their locations and transmit data to their missiles air-marked to destroy those future SA-22 Systems. The Syrians will now have to decide how they change tactics. Do the Pantsir Systems come with an expansion pack? Do they come with auto loaders for the missiles and cannons. I’ve always wondered why the complement of missiles and ammunition was so low. It seemed stupid to me and now, it’s confirmed. We’re not talking about a helicopter or an aircraft where weight and flight combat characteristics have to be considered. The Pantsir should have at least 6,000 rounds for it’s canons and combined missile complement of 90 missiles. Minimum of two deployed, modified bounding overwatch, Panstir systems and three replenishment details on standby. When one Pantsir is nearly out of ammunition and missiles, the other takes over, while the first is being replenished. If Pantsir two is running low, second replenishment detail moves up, while third moves into the first position. First replenishment them moves to restock, you get the idea…Let the enemy know, we’re not going anywhere for awhile, so grab a snickers!
This was an accident as consecuence of unprofessional task!….Syrian air defense worked well and was manage to intercept almost all missile!…Israel needed 28 aircraft and 70 missile to make insignificant damage in comparison of that movements of jets and weapons!…on example Argentina air force needed 20 aircraft and 40 carpet bombs to sink 4 British warships and damage 10 more during the Battle of San Carlos in Malvinas war!
Comrade stop that vodka drinking while trolling. The Jews razed the place while showing the Russian hardware is as good and having none.
Syria needs more of them and a good defence strategy. Like Dummy targets and more Pansirs. Use in larger groups too, and constantly move around. Make fake targets is a smart idea. Tunnels are a great defence with many entrances, this means they can move them in and out. The more fake targets, the less damage. Trick your enemy, don’t just sit there. That Pansir should have been moving, or drive in circles to create dust. Sat has a hard time with clouds and dust.
When i look at the exchange of guided or semi guided projectiles between the Israel and Syria, it wasn’t an outright victory for the former as the latter was successful to a degree to limit the damage caused using systems like the Pantsir. This seems more like a strike to overwhelm and declare victory no matter the outcome.
Hahaha.. that’s the best child killer can do.. blowing an inactive and undefended weaponry..and claimed some victory on in.. just like they use to do to those unarmed Palestinians.. lol..! disgusting and disgraceful bastards..!
The poor Russian crap was blind, thus….Booommmm
Yeah.. just like the poor Gazan of Palestine unarmed and undefended.. hehehe
Almost the same, but the poor Palestinians do not claim to have superior weapons.
> multiple pro-opposition sources used the Israeli video of the Pantsir-S destruction to mock the Syrian Air Defense Forces as unprofessional.
And they were perfectly correct in it.
You seem to have selective memory, as all cloned hasbaras.
If one crew using another unit in another place acted professionally, that does not mean this specific crew was too.
It is one thing to enter a risky fight and to have bad luck, and another is to stand amidst the battle peeping around and thinking no stray bullet would ever hit you.
“And they were perfectly correct in it.”
that’s just what happen when clueless people take israel at face value.
in the end, Assad wins the war and the syrian air defence is unprofessional.
the way i see it, israel (actually, bibi) just needed a way out a certain political and diplomatical situation they got themselves into. and they put up the usual manfrine, with the icing on the cake represented by “SA-22s can’t stop the israeli air force!”.
it’s ridiculous even to be discussing it, but that’s how the average jew reasons, the truth isn’t important at all only how you perceive it matters. the problem is that in that way, you just aim to survive at the end of the day. Someone should start realizing that it doesn’t matter how much time it will take, sooner or later, the real truth will catch up – and at that point, the more you lied your way around, the worse it will be.
So, you evade from discussing specific misdeeds of specific persons in a soecific video into some vague threats coming from some vague end of the day. Or “from the light flooded tomorrow” as they said in USSR.
The problem is, if those pesky unprofessionality acts like one on the video would not get treated immediately and pervasively there will be no “end of the day”.
When Syria changed policy and started shooting planes – Israel got confused for a bit. It lost two jets (zero pilots) while was groggy. But it did adapted, and in recent strikes it looses jets no more. And Syria again looses both AD units and personnel.
Now it is high time for Syria to urgently adapt and enhance. And that would be only possible if the displayed unprofessionalism gets admitted and rooted out before it is too late.
“It lost two jets (zero pilots) while was groggy. But it did adapted, and in recent strikes it looses jets no more.”
BS. israel lost planes when it overflew syria. if they don’t and attack from lebanon like in the latest strikes, there is basically no chance to lose planes.
So, Israel soldiers adapt to changed situations and Syrian soldiers did not.
lol.
This target wasn’t out of service. Syrian S-200 takes down Israeli F-16:
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Syria-Israel-crash.jpg